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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>,
	larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, storm@cua.dk
Subject: Re: New start up splash screen annoyance...
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:45:00 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <85r6kvxl7n.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1IXq4v-0003wL-Tt@fencepost.gnu.org> (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue\, 18 Sep 2007 23\:18\:17 -0400")

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> I don't think an echo area message can do the job, because there
> is not enough room.  An extra level of indirection would be far
> less effective.

I completely agree that this is far less effective, and it is so by
design: it leaves the decision of when to peruse the startup screen to
the user when the user starts Emacs with a command line.  If we grant
that reducing effectiveness to this level (which hopefully is
acceptable to most people) might be appropriate (and I strongly think
it is), we can think about how to replace

!) make sure that the user can't avoid getting a splash screen,
against his explicit wish to start editing a particular file

with the following:

a) make sure that the user will be aware of the startup screen and
certain how to get it
b) make it obvious to the user that it would be in his best interest to
peruse it if he has not already done so.

I believe that we can achieve this with either a somewhat persistent
echo area message or a tooltip popup, either timed for about 30
seconds.  We use such echo area messages for teaching keybindings, and
they are effective for that purpose.  We use tooltips for conveying a
number of other information, and they also are doing a reasonably good
job without being annoying.

> The idea of popping up two frames seems worth trying.
> Would someone like to try it?

Tooltips are frames designed to be unobtrusive but noticeable, so it
would be a good idea to use them.  However, the splash screen would be
too large for a tooltip, and links would not be followable in a
tooltip, and it is a bit too ephemeral for such a bunch of
information.  So while we already have an interface for an information
popup, it would be appropriate to use another indirection level when
using it.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

  reply	other threads:[~2007-09-19  5:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 295+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-09-09 13:56 New start up splash screen annoyance Sascha Wilde
2007-09-09 14:40 ` Leo
2007-09-09 17:32 ` Mathias Dahl
2007-09-09 20:07 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-09 21:20   ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-09 23:52     ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-10 16:53       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-10 17:00         ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 18:19           ` Leo
2007-09-11 20:31             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-11 21:33               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-11 22:59                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-10 17:28         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-11 20:31           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-11 20:57             ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-12  2:48               ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Bill Wohler
2007-09-12  5:44                 ` Folding emacsclient into emacs David Kastrup
2007-09-12  5:57                   ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-12  7:06                     ` dhruva
2007-09-12  7:55                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13  9:00                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13 11:36                         ` Michael Albinus
2007-09-13  8:28                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-12  7:17                   ` Tramp (was: Folding emacsclient into emacs) Bill Wohler
2007-09-12  8:03                     ` Tramp David Kastrup
2007-09-12  8:17                     ` Tramp Michael Albinus
2007-09-12 20:20                   ` Folding emacsclient into emacs Tom Tromey
2007-09-12 20:48                     ` Leo
2007-09-13  6:10                     ` Jan Djärv
2007-09-12 11:17                 ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 11:25                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 11:37                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-12 15:08                   ` Folding emacsclient into emacs Bill Wohler
2007-09-12 15:15                   ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-12 23:36                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 18:52                   ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Richard Stallman
2007-09-12 19:08                     ` Folding emacsclient into emacs David Kastrup
2007-09-13  7:30                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  7:45                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13  7:51                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  7:59                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13  8:54                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  9:04                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-13 11:39                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-14  7:05                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14  8:22                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-15  2:09                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15  5:56                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-15 18:07                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-16  4:08                                 ` dhruva
2007-09-16  7:32                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-16 10:57                                     ` dhruva
2007-09-16 11:11                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-16 11:27                                   ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-19 23:45                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-20  0:56                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20  1:24                                       ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-20  8:50                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-20 10:12                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20 18:34                                           ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-21 12:23                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-12 16:34                 ` Folding emacsclient into emacs (was: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Davis Herring
2007-09-12  7:02               ` New start up splash screen annoyance Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-12 14:07                 ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-12  9:39             ` Johannes Weiner
2007-09-12 12:36               ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-12 18:52               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-13  7:23                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  8:21                   ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-13  8:24                     ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-13  8:55                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-13  8:36                   ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-13  8:55                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-14  7:05                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14 11:12                   ` Mathias Dahl
2007-09-14 18:54                   ` Romain Francoise
2007-09-13 23:43                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-14  6:13                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-14 18:43                     ` Romain Francoise
2007-09-14 20:15                     ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-14 21:14                       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-14 21:38                         ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-15 14:48                         ` Michael Albinus
2007-09-15 21:23                           ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-16  5:34                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14  7:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-15  2:09                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15  8:04                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15  8:18                     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2007-09-16  5:33                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-16  7:25                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-17  0:20                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-17  5:55                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-17 22:24                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18  5:39                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18  9:30                                   ` Leo
2007-09-18 10:01                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18 15:00                                   ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-18 15:34                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18 16:51                                       ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-19  3:18                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19  5:45                                           ` David Kastrup [this message]
2007-09-20 16:33                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19 13:52                                           ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-19 14:10                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-19 16:33                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-09-18 20:02                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-18 22:17                                       ` Mathias Dahl
2007-09-18 19:34                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18 21:01                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18 22:08                                     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2007-09-19 15:49                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19 23:46                                         ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-20  0:24                                           ` Leo
2007-09-21 12:23                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-20 11:16                                         ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-20 14:17                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-20 15:30                                             ` dhruva
2007-09-20 15:39                                               ` Davis Herring
2007-09-20 15:52                                                 ` Bastien
2007-09-20 15:56                                               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20 15:49                                             ` Bastien
2007-09-21 16:21                                               ` Bastien
2007-09-21 17:42                                                 ` Drew Adams
2007-09-21 18:01                                                   ` Sean Sieger
2007-09-21 19:38                                                   ` Bastien
2007-09-21 17:46                                                 ` Davis Herring
2007-09-22 11:57                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-20 17:45                                           ` Manoj Srivastava
2007-09-20 18:35                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-20 19:12                                               ` Sean O'Rourke
2007-09-20 19:19                                                 ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-20 20:13                                                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2007-09-20 20:22                                                     ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-20 23:57                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-21  7:18                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-21 22:34                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-22 14:11                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 18:40                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-22 18:52                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-22 19:20                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-22 20:03                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 20:43                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-22 23:48                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-09-23  0:33                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-23  5:39                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-09-23  7:43                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 15:20                                                                               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-24 22:08                                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 17:57                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 18:30                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 18:40                                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 18:59                                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 19:25                                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 19:45                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26  0:35                                                                                           ` Kenichi Handa
2007-09-26  1:54                                                                                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-26 14:01                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-26 14:05                                                                                               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-26 15:18                                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26 21:56                                                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-26 15:10                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 18:47                                                                                       ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-09-25 19:08                                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 20:27                                                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 16:43                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 22:52                                                                               ` David Reitter
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-24 18:37                                                                                   ` Davis Herring
2007-09-24 21:14                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 17:58                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 18:33                                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25 18:38                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2007-09-25 19:37                                                                                         ` David Reitter
2007-09-25 21:03                                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26  7:59                                                                                             ` David Reitter
2007-09-26 14:59                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26 16:03                                                                                                 ` David Reitter
2007-09-26 16:15                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2007-09-26 16:10                                                                                                 ` echo area clicks: *Messages* David Reitter
2007-09-26 16:49                                                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-09-24 20:40                                                                                   ` New start up splash screen annoyance Robert J. Chassell
2007-09-25 17:57                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 18:18                                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2007-09-25  5:01                                                                                   ` Manoj Srivastava
2007-09-25 23:36                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 14:06                                                                           ` Didier Verna
2007-09-23 16:44                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2007-09-23 19:33                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-23 20:42                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24  1:16                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-24  2:00                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2007-09-23 20:16                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-24 16:59                                                                             ` Davis Herring
2007-09-24 21:25                                                                               ` Didier Verna
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 15:25                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2007-09-23 16:43                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 15:46                                                                             ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-23 16:44                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-26  7:03                                                                           ` Didier Verna
2007-09-26 16:29                                                                             ` mode line [X] Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 13:46                                                                       ` New start up splash screen annoyance Didier Verna
2007-09-22 20:01                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23  4:24                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-23  7:50                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-23 11:22                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 22:33                                                                       ` Kim F. Storm
2007-09-24  6:03                                                                         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 19:00                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-22 18:42                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-22 20:07                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 22:15                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 22:54                                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-22 22:16                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 15:05                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 20:17                                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-24 18:19                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23  9:07                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-20 20:23                                                     ` Sean O'Rourke
2007-09-20 19:28                                               ` Manoj Srivastava
2007-09-21 22:33                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-22 14:12                                                   ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23  9:07                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 11:22                                                       ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-23 21:55                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-23 23:55                                                           ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-25 10:44                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-25 20:28                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-21 17:37                                         ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-22 11:57                                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-19 14:59                                     ` Bill Wohler
2007-09-20 16:34                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18  8:15                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2007-09-16  9:27                         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2007-09-17 22:03                         ` Davis Herring
2007-09-17 22:43                           ` Drew Adams
2007-09-18  5:25                             ` David Kastrup
2007-09-18  5:43                               ` dhruva
2007-09-15 10:17                     ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-15 10:40                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-15 18:55                         ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-15 22:10                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-17  0:20                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-18 21:20                             ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-19 15:49                               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-15 18:57                         ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-16  4:41                         ` tomas
2007-09-16 20:15                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-09-16 22:12                             ` Mathias Megyei
2007-09-17  4:04                             ` tomas
2007-09-16  5:33                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-17 22:08                     ` Davis Herring
2007-09-13  7:52             ` Sascha Wilde
2007-09-13  8:03               ` David Kastrup
2007-09-14  7:05               ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-14  7:51                 ` Jason Rumney
2007-09-14  8:19                 ` David Kastrup
2007-09-10 16:53     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-10 19:09       ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 22:07         ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 23:10           ` Leo
2007-09-10 23:19             ` Chong Yidong
2007-09-10 23:24               ` Leo
2007-09-12  0:40           ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-14  8:11             ` Glenn Morris
2007-09-09 21:27   ` Jason Rumney
2007-09-09 21:44     ` Drew Adams
2007-09-10  1:13     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-09 23:48   ` Juri Linkov
2007-10-03 20:18   ` KingBolete
2007-10-04 17:27     ` Richard Stallman
2007-10-08  4:16       ` tomas
2007-10-08 19:16         ` Juri Linkov
2007-10-09 20:03           ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-10 21:27             ` Juri Linkov
2007-11-10 22:36               ` Pure space overflow in Emacs 22 (was: Re: New start up splash screen annoyance...) Sven Joachim
2007-11-10 22:43                 ` Pure space overflow in Emacs 22 Juri Linkov
2007-10-09  1:14         ` New start up splash screen annoyance Richard Stallman
2007-10-09  6:39           ` tomas
2007-10-26  5:21             ` tomas
2007-09-09 23:54 ` Juri Linkov
2007-09-10  2:33   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-10  5:19     ` David Kastrup
2007-09-11 20:30       ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-10 23:55     ` Richard Stallman
2007-09-11  0:45       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-09-11  5:47         ` David Kastrup
2007-09-12  8:45         ` Richard Stallman

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