From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:36:45 +0200 Message-ID: <85r6czsg5u.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <004a01c8a1a0$7215cdd0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <878wz9btq8.fsf@jurta.org> <85fxthy4qp.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87hcdxz9zr.fsf_-_@jurta.org> <87ve2cfk9x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200804201931.m3KJVO4X008875@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <858wz8ux2w.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BA779.2080507@gmail.com> <853apguv0s.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BAD5C.4090204@gmail.com> <85prskte96.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480BB8C0.4020303@gmail.com> <85abjnu5ss.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480C31B9.6060900@gmail.com> <85y777sp1i.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <480C36D8.1060500@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208770684 1092 80.91.229.12 (21 Apr 2008 09:38:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:38:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Juri Linkov , Dan Nicolaescu , Stefan Monnier , drew.adams@oracle.com To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 21 11:38:37 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JnsTh-00009r-0W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:38:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JnsSz-0004BL-SK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:37:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JnsSv-0004B6-1T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:37:37 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JnsSl-00048a-U4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:37:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JnsSl-00048W-IM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:37:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.41]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JnsSY-00069F-Vo; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:37:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.14]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A27C1D3169; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:36:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (mail-in-13.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.53]) by mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1975F113878; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:36:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-038-079.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.38.79]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89DA31D8EF; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:36:53 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id C2ED21C39587; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:36:45 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <480C36D8.1060500@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:40:24 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6861/Mon Apr 21 09:50:29 2008 on mail-in-13.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95615 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: >> >>> David Kastrup wrote: >>>>> However rereading what >>>>> you wrote I see that you said that there is no way for the average >>>>> (new) user to deactivate the region. He/she can use the arrow keys >>>>> without shift. >>>> That does not deactivate a region when transient-mark-mode is used. >>> Is that really the case? Then I think it is a mistake. New users will >>> expect that arrow keys without shift will deactivate the region. >> >> How about trying an Emacs with default settings and workflow before >> making further suggestions? > > Maybe that is a good suggestion, but I can not see how it is relevant > to the statement I make here. It keeps you from making actually useful suggestions. > Don't you think that new users will expect arrow keys without shift to > deactivate the region? Please make a copy of Wordpad and call it Emacs. Presumably that should meet all of your new users' expectations without you needing to bother the rest of the list readers. And please be advised that not surprising new users is a very secondary goal of Emacs. The main goal of Emacs is to be a useful and powerful editor for its users. Any proposals for secondary goals that get into the hairs of primary goals are stillborn. If you don't get accustomed to Emacs before you make proposals for it, you are wasting both your and our time. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum