From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: face-remapping patch Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 17:38:05 +0200 Message-ID: <85r6biqyaq.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <5CB5F5E5-9239-40A8-A3B2-5F49B94E27B7@gmail.com> <85lk1ui3i0.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <85ej7mi30t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <871w3lkmec.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <86y75rlx4f.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1212248314 10132 80.91.229.12 (31 May 2008 15:38:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 15:38:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: david.reitter@gmail.com, stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, miles@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 31 17:39:14 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K2TAn-0007km-1Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 17:39:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47525 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K2TA0-0003AA-UF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K2T9w-0003A5-Cv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:38:20 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K2T9u-00039n-VA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:38:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43992 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K2T9u-00039k-Rf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:38:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.42]:38354) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K2T9k-0000Js-Ta; Sat, 31 May 2008 11:38:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F08B32E788; Sat, 31 May 2008 17:38:07 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEB5323D327; Sat, 31 May 2008 17:38:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-037-173.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.37.173]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B789F1C3318; Sat, 31 May 2008 17:38:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id D3B811CC20FE; Sat, 31 May 2008 17:38:05 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard M. Stallman's message of "Sat, 31 May 2008 11:17:18 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/7301/Sat May 31 11:50:18 2008 on mail-in-05.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:98140 Archived-At: Richard M Stallman writes: > As I said: specifiers have the advantage of being able to > define/differentiate behavior even in the case where the locus is not > established yet. > > In what practical case is this an advantage? Being able to define different parameters for different display types, for example. We have this for face definitions already. Try M-x customize-face RET highlight RET then click on "State/For all kinds of displays". You get what amounts to a specifier of different faces that are "not yet" established. Now for multi-tty support, on different tty's different faces will look different. This can be used in XEmacs for a unified approach to offering display-dependent face, image, toolbar, menubar selections. Which is a good idea when you are taking multi-tty support seriously (which also might mean connecting from different computers to your local Emacs session and having it open a terminal/frame on your external terminal). In practice, it is rather hard to beat application programmers to actually provide all this versatility and work with it. In theory, XEmacs could get along without buffer-local variables, using specifiers instead. In practice, enough programmers are already scared off the areas in XEmacs which require the use of specifiers. x-local variables seem less scary, but you can't use them (like in customizations) before the locale x even exists. In practice, uninstantiated specifiers might not be needed to get manipulated outside of the customize interface in most cases. So I don't see we should create something like that with a life of its own. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum