From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:27:10 +0100 Message-ID: <85mypvfva9.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <7dbe73ed0802200814k4164eb10ic3275c3c277da59a@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203525158 22672 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2008 16:32:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:32:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Sascha Wilde , Juanma Barranquero , Emacs Devel To: "Mathias Dahl" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 17:33:01 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRrsM-0005xb-7S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:32:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrrr-00060R-6G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:32:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrmx-0001S7-2U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:19 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrmt-0001Oj-2M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:18 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrms-0001Oc-Ku for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JRrmr-00064C-Tb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-09-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.21]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B57024AFCF; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:27:11 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-09-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781EC28EDE3; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:27:11 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-026-202.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.26.202]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4754135E6AA; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:27:11 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id E54D21CDB1E6; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:27:10 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <7dbe73ed0802200814k4164eb10ic3275c3c277da59a@mail.gmail.com> (Mathias Dahl's message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:14:38 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/5893/Wed Feb 20 09:07:36 2008 on mail-in-06.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89699 Archived-At: "Mathias Dahl" writes: >> IMO, defaults should be choosen, if possible, so the behavior is what >> most new users would expect. An experienced user will research how to >> deactivate something that he doesn't like. A newbie will perhaps just >> give up. > > I agree, and this has happened to at least two colleagues, people I > know would have liked Emacs if they just had hung in there a little > longer. How do you know that? > I have been able to convince one of them that Emacs is the way to go > by showing him some killer features, and he is now happily Emacsing > along. The other colleague gave up when C-c/v/x did not do what he > expected. He said he became to stressed when the app did not behave > like he was used to, and he felt it interfered with his work. Emacs would have behaved different from his expectations in a lot of other respects, anyway. And never being to tell what C-x is actually going to do or why it does not work in one or the other manner just when one expects it is not going to be the ultimate stress reducer, anyway. > Anyway, I would not go as far as saying that CUA should be on by > default, because I think that generates other problems. I guess my > point is that a lot of people give up more easily today so good > defaults are important. People that give up easily will not work with complex software of any kind, anyway. We need to focus on our target clientele rather than bothering to keep some people a few minutes longer. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum