From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: rossini@blindglobe.net (A.J. Rossini) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs setup assistants Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:57:26 -0700 Sender: xemacs-beta-admin@xemacs.org Message-ID: <85lljgcdyh.fsf@servant.blindglobe.net> References: <87zn847n6a.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <1438-Thu20May2004203119+0300-eliz@gnu.org> <4nd64y29zc.fsf@lifelogs.com> <2719-Fri21May2004201241+0300-eliz@gnu.org> <4nn041u050.fsf@lifelogs.com> <4n1xl9kjab.fsf@lifelogs.com> <4n1xl89xto.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87smdocgn1.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Reply-To: rossini@u.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1085526206 9381 80.91.224.253 (25 May 2004 23:03:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:03:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ted Zlatanov , emacs-devel@gnu.org, xemacs-beta@xemacs.org Original-X-From: xemacs-beta-admin@xemacs.org Wed May 26 01:03:16 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BSkx2-0000Q4-00 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:03:16 +0200 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([199.184.165.135]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BSkx2-0000k1-00 for ; Wed, 26 May 2004 01:03:16 +0200 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4PMx3o28549; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:59:07 -0400 Original-Received: (from turnbull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) id i4PMw1r27931 for xemacs-beta-mailman@xemacs.org; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:58:01 -0400 Original-Received: (from mail@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) id i4PMvoj27818 for turnbull@tux.org; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:57:50 -0400 Original-Received: from servant.blindglobe.net (sense-sea-MegaSub-2-231.oz.net [216.39.172.231]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.11.6p2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id i4PMvmo27788 for ; Tue, 25 May 2004 18:57:48 -0400 Original-Received: from rossini by servant.blindglobe.net with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BSkrP-000064-59; Tue, 25 May 2004 15:57:27 -0700 Original-To: Juri Linkov X-Face: >W_Rys'8s0zCUk5iFHk{Sn,Yw"=Z,Qq#v.3FS&**X:wHhFT~%t)F|ze)wKX<1v36_W(0n4-*r[~s_,hK"3DHHga&F6=|a1t8}VBnhQL~]rWOg(L In-Reply-To: <87smdocgn1.fsf@mail.jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue, 25 May 2004 23:59:27 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) XEmacs/21.4 (Security Through Obscurity, linux) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rossini@blindglobe.net X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on servant.blindglobe.net); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-XEmacs-List: beta Errors-To: xemacs-beta-admin@xemacs.org X-BeenThere: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: XEmacs Beta Testers List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:14836 gmane.emacs.devel:23940 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:23940 Juri Linkov writes: > Ted Zlatanov writes: >>> In particular, some might want to look ahead in order to figure what >>> to answer for the current question. >> >> I think this would subvert the whole idea of assistants and make them >> too much of a power user's tool. Power users don't need assistants. > > I think everyone who uses Emacs is by definition a power user ;-) > > Emacs user = power user. NO. Not even close. I've got staff scientists/biologists/masters-level statisticians who use it because ESS (Emacs Speaks Statistics) is the coolest way to do data analysis (yes, I helped to write it, but I'm not saying so because I'm biased ;-). They don't even come close to being power users in the Emacs sense, let alone qualify as "programmers" except maybe for excel (well, they are using R, but more as a set of macros and incantation than formal or proper programming). The idea of simple assistants would gain me so much time (not having to train) that it isn't even funny. (now on the other hand, I'm the one who would be writing assistants, so I'm paying attention at this point, but that's another issue). Maybe you meant to have a smiley there, but I don't even want these users to even think about customize. Maybe "copy my .emacs", but not much more. best, -tony -- rossini@u.washington.edu http://www.analytics.washington.edu/ Biomedical and Health Informatics University of Washington Biostatistics, SCHARP/HVTN Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center UW (Tu/Th/F): 206-616-7630 FAX=206-543-3461 | Voicemail is unreliable FHCRC (M/W): 206-667-7025 FAX=206-667-4812 | use Email CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message and any attachments may be confidential and privileged. If you received this message in error, please destroy it and notify the sender. Thank you.