From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: evangelizing Emacs with a graphical tutorial Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:02:32 +0200 Message-ID: <85lk06mflj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ejpc3ilr.fsf@localhost.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <878wwen09k.fsf@jurta.org> <87wsjqg2br.fsf_-_@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1215932581 22133 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2008 07:03:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 07:03:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 13 09:03:49 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KHvcU-0004YG-GS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:03:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59483 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHvbc-0001RC-6T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:02:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHvbW-0001R7-UR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:02:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KHvbT-0001QE-4T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:02:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46275 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KHvbT-0001Q2-0U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:02:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:36572) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KHvbS-00044I-B4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:02:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-14.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.54]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KHvbQ-00022P-W3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:02:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-14.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FF81879F4; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:02:35 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.44]) by mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C096723D391; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:02:35 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-034-089.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.34.89]) by mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB182B6A43; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:02:35 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id D65ED1CFAEF1; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:02:33 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87wsjqg2br.fsf_-_@jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:21:59 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7696/Sun Jul 13 01:03:03 2008 on mail-in-04.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100634 Archived-At: --=-=-= Juri Linkov writes: > BTW, while looking now at the startup screen with a new nice image, > I have a feeling that it is a bit unfriendly to put the word "to quit" > just below the word "Welcome". > > I propose to move this line a few lines below to be after the line > "To start". This would be more logical place and more friendly. I am not sure about that: the most unfriendly thing an editor can do to a beginner is not allowing him to quit. Now that's probably not an issue for the GUI startup screen since we have File/Exit Emacs on the menu. Actually, the next unfriendly thing is not allowing a user _not_ to quit. I just tried C-h k M-F4 and got the following result: --=-=-= Content-Type: image/png Content-Disposition: inline; filename=Screenshot.png Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAA1IAAALwBAMAAABvq1llAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAADBQTFRFAwUB Ehd6QCZMOjM1mjUsf1sxa2NeVo3MmJmZ15FLwMK+8s6Y8eOw8Oro8/Lw/v/8H2R81AAAAAFiS0dE AIgFHUgAAAAJcEhZcwAACxMAAAsTAQCanBgAAAAHdElNRQfYBw0HAB6NsxvJAAAgAElEQVR42u2d XWwc15XnL0igReiFqKcAwVoNBIhl9HqIhohIWgJJvAknzOYlsgRaUebBDQur0RJrG56HbazglogY 8AgEHEskNBrF2A2xzDBMi61g6ZWBTB4CtEgP8riwZLvNLudhB9nVmKTZGM8K3tVs7f2oul/10dVU d7Ob/T9SN7vqflXdX51zT926dS8hmVc9SK/L/y4QQl72diC9Lt6HhGS8/4eK2E+5qiRh458LlBQq az/lf/1amrj/89P4jZ0C+TaL/g+vOV+5g1rbF1Jaa/TT+I3tJUHqtSKVg3Hm98bY99axA0ZqR5D6 n18pFi99dLnfIW2cP36n/0gpN+Hzn8Zv+KReK7ruJ5/2u1J9dvLO5p/3P6n/MT4+/i258S323ydF ITnFT8vlXzoVty9k8/yJ7XvPnL945njFXRgv8e33xme236XHv1G6N+b+1fjl+rHt2viJfjibjzVS b32skfI3dsSGy0l99JVi6aNi8bWX+4PUQmmhdO/E5njp3TF3bvPE9kLp460zb723fXPzzEufXb43 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absent in this plethora of answers is an option _not_ to quit (presumably "Cancel"). Closing the dialog window happens to achieve that, apparently, but it is not really obvious. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum --=-=-=--