From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: constant `e' Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:38:16 +0100 Message-ID: <85hctt7w1j.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ireah6ia.fsf@wigwam.brockman.se> <854ppu8k1l.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87y7n6fdod.fsf@wigwam.brockman.se> <20070210135753.GB885@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1171129118 13561 80.91.229.12 (10 Feb 2007 17:38:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:38:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Daniel Brockman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 10 18:38:32 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HFwBD-0001wW-Mj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:38:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFwBD-0007fB-9U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:38:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HFwB3-0007ez-1F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:38:21 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HFwB1-0007en-Kg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:38:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HFwB1-0007ek-I9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:38:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1HFwB1-0007q2-1L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:38:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-03-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-03-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.15]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D19D24B1D6; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:38:17 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-03-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6974E2D386F; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:38:17 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-098-062.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.98.62]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5692ADE4E; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:38:17 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 818E01C4CE32; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 18:38:16 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <20070210135753.GB885@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "10 Feb 2007 13\:43\:30 +0100\, Sat\, 10 Feb 2007 13\:57\:53 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:66216 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Hi, Daniel > > On Sat, Feb 10, 2007 at 12:35:30PM +0100, Daniel Brockman wrote: > > [ .... ] > >> Incidentally, I also think `(not (null n))' looks better than `n' --- >> as do, I believe, most Emacs Lisp programmers. > > I disagree with you on both counts. When I see `(not (null n))', it > takes extra effort mentally to filter out what, to me, is just > noise. Agreed. >> Take a look at this code: > >> (cond (n >> (bongo-mark-line-forward (prefix-numeric-value n))) >> ((bongo-region-active-p) >> (bongo-mark-region (region-beginning) (region-end))) >> (t >> (bongo-mark-line-forward))) > >> It's ugly, isn't it? It's not just that `(not (null n))' is >> semantically clearer than a lone `n'; it's also more beautiful. Uh what? You want meaningless clutter for lining things up? Then write (cond (n ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; (bongo-mark-line-forward (prefix-numeric-value n))) ((bongo-region-active-p) (bongo-mark-region (region-beginning) (region-end))) (t ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; (bongo-mark-line-forward))) > It's more alliterative, perhaps. But it feels like I'm being talked > down to - the programmer is saying, in effect "you probably don't > understand Lisp very well, so I'll make it very very clear". Disagree. That is not at all clearer. It is merely occupying a different amount of space. Rather than "I'll make it very very clear", it is "I'll try to give you a nice wallpaper that won't startle you out of your sleep". -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum