From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Wolfgang Jenkner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:53:11 +0200 Message-ID: <85h9pyxqbz.fsf@iznogoud.viz> References: <20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box> <87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <55826DCC.9040404@cs.ucla.edu> <55850208.3080605@cs.ucla.edu> <5585C279.3030607@cs.ucla.edu> <55871590.8010406@cs.ucla.edu> <55898885.8010603@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435082138 8095 80.91.229.3 (23 Jun 2015 17:55:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 17:55:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 23 19:55:22 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7SPm-0007om-39 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:55:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46788 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7SPl-0001vp-98 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:55:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56361) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7SPZ-0001uO-9c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:55:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7SPU-0000iQ-At for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:55:05 -0400 Original-Received: from b2bfep14.mx.upcmail.net ([62.179.121.59]:42757) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7SPU-0000hz-0y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:55:00 -0400 Original-Received: from edge11.upcmail.net ([192.168.13.81]) by b2bfep14.mx.upcmail.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.11 201-2260-151-128-20120928) with ESMTP id <20150623175458.WJWY1806.b2bfep14-int.chello.at@edge11.upcmail.net> for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:54:58 +0200 Original-Received: from iznogoud.viz ([91.119.210.132]) by edge11.upcmail.net with edge id jtux1q00F2rwc0T0BtuxHt; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:54:58 +0200 X-SourceIP: 91.119.210.132 Original-Received: from wolfgang by iznogoud.viz with local (Exim 4.85 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7SPR-0005R2-0J; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:54:57 +0200 Mail-Followup-To: Paul Eggert , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.50 (berkeley-unix) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 62.179.121.59 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187434 Archived-At: On Tue, Jun 23 2015, Paul Eggert wrote: > Richard Stallman wrote: >> The full conventions for doc strings are definitely not >> part of the rudiments. > > True, but quoting is pretty elementary. Most doc strings use it, > I daresay. For example, the doc strings for =E2=80=98car=E2=80=99, =E2=80= =98cdr=E2=80=99, and =E2=80=98length=E2=80=99 > all use quoting. These are the sorts of doc strings that new users are > likely to see. > > I agree with you, by the way, that the improvement due to using curved > quotes is not a large one. Emacs's use of an obsolescent quoting > style is merely a constant minor annoyance, and it's obviously > something that we can work around when we teach Emacs to students -- > we can even give them a little history lesson as we go. You could equally well choose to present doc strings in emacs as an example of how to decouple mark-up from presentation instead, though. I mean, those quotes (any kind of quotes) in *Help* or *info* are a bit odd anyway given that documentation presented in web browsers usually manages to do fine without them. How do you explain to your students why they are needed (the quotes, not the students)?