From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:19 +0200 Message-ID: <85fxpx3rfo.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <20080726080304.GA1419@muc.de> <85myk53u86.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <488AECE2.9090705@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217066721 9277 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2008 10:05:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:05:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 26 12:06:10 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMgeD-0006AX-7O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:05:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34872 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMgdJ-0008Mr-Ge for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 06:04:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMgQA-0002Y0-GU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 05:50:38 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMgQ5-0002X7-JT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 05:50:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42832 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMgQ4-0002Wn-Bd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 05:50:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-11.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.51]:52681) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KMgPu-0001Py-GV; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 05:50:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-11.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E4B20915B; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C95323D327; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-019-167.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.19.167]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9DD35E731; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:20 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 1EEF71C4CCF2; Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:20 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <488AECE2.9090705@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:22:42 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7829/Sat Jul 26 04:24:44 2008 on mail-in-06.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101509 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >>> My impression is that a substantial minority, possibly even a >>> majority, of Emacs users run on this particular non-free OS, and >>> that the cost of supporting them is low by comparison. >> >> The cost is that they don't care about using or improving free >> systems. > > I think there is a good bit of psychology involved there because I > believe you can not generally come to that conclusion without a > certain view of how people decide what to do. I am not interested in applying psychology to feel comfortable with an undesirable situation. That may be fine as long as the situation can't be changed. > What is propably less well know is that psychological experiments and > thinking points to that people who are what they call authoritarian in > their view of other people more often believe that pressure is the > (only) way to get people to do things. > > Perhaps it is easy to be lead to the conclusion that pressure is > necessary. For some actions it is but are the actions and thinking we > want really of this type? If you consider it as _pressure_ if I voice my opinion, and want to silence me, then you might want to think about your priorities. Either you consider me a babbling idiot who does not make sense, in which case there is no necessity to change my opinion. Or you don't, and there may be sense to what I say. And if there is, this sense will not go away if you make me go away. So we might as well stop. The world will become neither simpler nor more complex by us agreeing or disagreeing. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum