From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Leake Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 06:12:51 -0500 Message-ID: <85fw4kz6to.fsf@member.fsf.org> References: <87a9uvv6ng.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bof9s7cl.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87390kv9z2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352373183 21680 80.91.229.3 (8 Nov 2012 11:13:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:13:03 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 08 12:13:11 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TWQ2o-0003Uo-7N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 12:13:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50341 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWQ2e-0003Tl-WB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 06:13:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57246) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWQ2c-0003Tg-Uv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 06:13:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWQ2Y-0000Ff-0z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 06:12:58 -0500 Original-Received: from qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.56]:47609) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWQ2X-0000Fa-So for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 06:12:53 -0500 Original-Received: from omta19.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.98]) by qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LzBp1k00327AodY56zCsMh; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:12:52 +0000 Original-Received: from TAKVER ([69.140.67.196]) by omta19.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LzCs1k00e4E4Fsd3fzCsNA; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:12:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87390kv9z2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Thu, 08 Nov 2012 16:18:25 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (windows-nt) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 76.96.62.56 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154729 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > And that's why it's so intuitive that Google Maps gives you a hand to > grab the map with, and the map moves in the direction the hand goes? Yes; you grabbed the map, not the viewport. > That's why I get vertigo when I drag the scrollbar thumb down and the > text scrolls up? The scrollbar thumb controls the viewport, not the contents (the map, in this case). Once you get used to thinking about things in terms of _either_ viewport or content, scrolling makes sense. Apple recently changed the direction; http://www.pcworld.com/article/236182/osx_lion_scrolling.html I'm not clear whether Emacs matched Apple before or after the change; the article talks about "finger motion", not "mouse motion". > While I don't dispute that your model is what describe, and don't > really have any ground to claim it's a minority view, I believe that > "everybody's mental model" is rather more nuanced. Not to mention > "plural". :-) +1 Which means there's not much point in changing Emacs functionality, although adding the concept of "viewport" to the documentation would be a good idea. -- -- Stephe