From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:50:21 +0200 Message-ID: <85ej5vbpzm.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87skug6tq5.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <487A783B.7060603@gmail.com> <20080713232635.GD1076@muc.de> <85od51id2t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20080714204242.GH6711@volo.donarmstrong.com> <20080714223059.GG3445@muc.de> <8763r858dx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216104661 12676 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2008 06:51:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 06:51:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ralf Angeli Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 15 08:51:49 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KIeNn-0005ig-7G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:51:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58193 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KIeMv-0003ta-1t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:50:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIeMq-0003tL-F9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:50:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KIeMo-0003t7-2W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:50:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59590 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KIeMn-0003t4-Rg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:50:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:42325) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIeMn-0004Uj-71 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:50:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-03.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.43]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KIeMm-0007H8-GA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:50:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.14]) by mail-in-03.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCFDA2CAAD8; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:50:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (mail-in-09.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.49]) by mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDEB01141A2; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:50:26 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-032-088.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.32.88]) by mail-in-09.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3105ABC00E; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:50:24 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 098D41C4D4A0; Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:50:22 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Ralf Angeli's message of "Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:58:35 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7716/Tue Jul 15 04:34:17 2008 on mail-in-09.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100721 Archived-At: Ralf Angeli writes: > * Stephen J. Turnbull (2008-07-15) writes: > >> Except for bug reports. Debian's XEmacs (unlike, say, Mandrivel's) is >> quite clean of core patches, so I don't recall ever needing to fire up >> a Debian XEmacs to diagnose a bug. (Of course, if it looks like a >> load-path issue, I always try to bounce it back to Debian, since it's >> their load-path, not ours. > > Just as an example, the Debian Emacs policy requires all Emacsen to > have /usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp in `load-path', even XEmacs. > (See also .) > Like that XEmacs will pick up files byte-compiled for Emacs. This > looks pretty broken to me. No, you don't understand: byte-compiled files should not go into /usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp. This directory is only incidentally named like a standard Emacs search path directory. The byte-compiled files are to be in another directory so that list-load-path-shadows has something to think about. And of course, any package installation that thinks it might work by placing .elc in the same place as .el is naive. And Emacs has a command byte-recompile-directory just by mistake. And so on. Really, the Debian policy is not broken. It is just that no-one, including Emacs and XEmacs itself, does not really appreciate it. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum