From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: guided tour suggestions Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:45:07 +0200 Message-ID: <85d4zi6jdo.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87645ai4cl.fsf@phil.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1182923119 26232 80.91.229.12 (27 Jun 2007 05:45:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 05:45:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phil Sung Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 27 07:45:18 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I3QL8-0004sW-B5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:45:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I3QL7-0001kf-QD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:45:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I3QL3-0001kD-LZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:45:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I3QL2-0001jT-7O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:45:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I3QL2-0001jQ-42 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:45:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-04.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.44]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1I3QL1-0005JO-Ho for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:45:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.14]) by mail-in-04.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1798017F455; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:45:10 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mail-in-02-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19241147B5; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:45:09 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-041-205.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.41.205]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2ED19B321; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:45:09 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 60EAA1D03440; Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:45:08 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87645ai4cl.fsf@phil.mit.edu> (Phil Sung's message of "Tue\, 26 Jun 2007 21\:16\:42 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.3/3540/Wed Jun 27 04:54:27 2007 on mail-in-01.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:73910 Archived-At: Phil Sung writes: > Previous suggestions which were made: > > * Mention help features earlier > > I now mention the manual close to the beginning, and function documentation > right after the section on editing commands. > > * Emphasize Emacs as a coding environment > > There are now screenshots of GDB, compile, grep, and shell, and further > information about what programming major modes can do. > > Again, the draft is at: > > > If no one objects, I will ask the webmasters to replace the version > on gnu.org with this soon. I just took a look at it: Ugh! This is supposed to _advertise_ Emacs, and I have enough of a fight convincing people that Emacs has made the step into the twenty-first century. The guided tour is completely unsuitable for that. It shows an Emacs a) compiled without a modern toolkit (Gtk+, Windows or Mac) b) without menus c) without toolbars d) without scrollbars (for heaven's sake!) e) without font diversity. The only thing hinting at fonts is a man-page (not info or even woman-page!) with some bold headings, and then those headings have the identical crowded monospace size as the rest. f) without file dialogs g) without tooltips h) without any non-ASCII character The only exception to this theme is a screenshot of a Tetris game, quite irrelevant. Would it be possible to make the screenshots with emacs -Q so that people see what they get out of the box instead of after an Emacs-18-tty-happy user has finished refurbishing Emacs 22 to a Zen-like emptiness? It is, after all, Emacs 22 we are trying to sell to the unwashed masses. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum