From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:39:40 +0100 Message-ID: <85bq77yxpf.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <4pd9g15e.fsf@blue.sea.net> <87r6g7z3m2.fsf@everybody.org> <87odbbngr8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080125231308.57E9A30303@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE> <873aslsck9.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1201455626 29201 80.91.229.12 (27 Jan 2008 17:40:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:40:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, ams@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, stephen@xemacs.org, Miles Bader To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 27 18:40:44 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JJBUp-00030f-KO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:40:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JJBUO-0007LF-KS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:40:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JJBUJ-0007KM-Vu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:40:12 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JJBUI-0007Jd-I6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:40:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JJBUI-0007JM-7n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:40:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-17.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.57]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JJBU7-0001xN-KV; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:40:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.16]) by mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0752BB8EB; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:39:58 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (mail-in-17.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.57]) by mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11839ABAEC; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:39:58 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-062-075.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.62.75]) by mail-in-17.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2B52BBE75; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:39:43 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id ADB501C29912; Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:39:41 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:45:17 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92/5573/Sun Jan 27 10:09:57 2008 on mail-in-17.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:87645 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I don't know that I like the idea of an inferior system being > promoted simply because it has an arbitrary label attached > though... > > Being part of the GNU Project is not an arbitrary label. It is not a label given for technical excellence. And as far as I am able to see, the promotion to "GNU software" is not the result of a competition for that title, but is granted when certain criteria are met and an application is made. The FSF as the authority granting the label of "GNU" does not at the same time have developer resources it can devote or reroute to GNU software. There are quite a few GNU software projects that are stagnating because of a lack of developers. It would not magically create new contributors when something important like Emacs development is hobbled by being tied into a project that does not, while deserving the name GNOME, have the impetus and capability to keep Emacs running. A development infrastructure depending on non-free software is unfortunate, one depending on free non-GNU software is not, as far as I can see, problematic over one depending on a resource-starved GNU project: one could always fork the free non-GNU software and would start with the same manpower (namely none) than one has for a stalling GNU project. So I don't think we should let ourselves be guided too much by the non-GNU/GNU distinction for development infrastructure when the GNU software does not fit the bill and we have no way making it do so. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum