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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, ams@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
	stephen@xemacs.org, Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:39:40 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <85bq77yxpf.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1JIve9-00006j-QX@fencepost.gnu.org> (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:45:17 -0500")

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     I don't know that I like the idea of an inferior system being
>     promoted simply because it has an arbitrary label attached
>     though...
>
> Being part of the GNU Project is not an arbitrary label.

It is not a label given for technical excellence.  And as far as I am
able to see, the promotion to "GNU software" is not the result of a
competition for that title, but is granted when certain criteria are met
and an application is made.  The FSF as the authority granting the label
of "GNU" does not at the same time have developer resources it can
devote or reroute to GNU software.

There are quite a few GNU software projects that are stagnating because
of a lack of developers.  It would not magically create new contributors
when something important like Emacs development is hobbled by being tied
into a project that does not, while deserving the name GNOME, have the
impetus and capability to keep Emacs running.

A development infrastructure depending on non-free software is
unfortunate, one depending on free non-GNU software is not, as far as I
can see, problematic over one depending on a resource-starved GNU
project: one could always fork the free non-GNU software and would start
with the same manpower (namely none) than one has for a stalling GNU
project.

So I don't think we should let ourselves be guided too much by the
non-GNU/GNU distinction for development infrastructure when the GNU
software does not fit the bill and we have no way making it do so.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

  reply	other threads:[~2008-01-27 17:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 277+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-12-30 12:22 What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-30 15:32 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2007-12-30 15:42 ` Richard Stallman
2007-12-30 17:22   ` Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-30 20:25     ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-12-30 21:55     ` Nick Roberts
2007-12-30 22:25       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2007-12-30 22:58         ` Richard Stallman
2007-12-30 22:58     ` Richard Stallman
2007-12-31  2:58       ` Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-31 12:14         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-01-01 23:57           ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2008-01-02  1:46             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2007-12-31 22:29         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-01  0:19           ` Leo
2007-12-31  4:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-12-31 13:07   ` Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-31 20:57     ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-12-31 21:41       ` Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-31 23:00         ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-01  0:50           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-01  4:22             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-01  6:20               ` Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-31 23:12         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-01  0:27           ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-01-01  3:00             ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-01  7:57               ` Drew Adams
2008-01-02 19:28               ` Agustin Martin
2008-01-03  9:50               ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05  3:34                 ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-06  8:09                   ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-03  9:50               ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-01 20:44             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-02  4:17               ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-01-05 10:48                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-01  0:57           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-01  4:21             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-01  0:10         ` Miles Bader
2008-01-01  1:06           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-01  1:41             ` Miles Bader
2008-01-01  2:16               ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-01 19:43           ` Tom Tromey
2008-01-01 21:11             ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-02  0:25             ` Miles Bader
2008-01-02  1:12               ` Tom Tromey
2008-01-02 17:19                 ` On-the-fly compiling (was Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like) Mark A. Hershberger
2008-01-02 20:57                   ` On-the-fly compiling Stefan Monnier
2008-01-02 22:33                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-01-02 23:09                   ` Tom Tromey
2008-01-02  9:53             ` What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Richard Stallman
2008-01-01 11:28       ` Tassilo Horn
2008-01-01 20:36         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-02  0:29           ` Miles Bader
2008-01-02  4:14             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-02  4:33               ` Miles Bader
2008-01-02  8:24                 ` Werner LEMBERG
2008-01-02  8:20           ` Tassilo Horn
2008-01-03  9:50             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-03 13:15               ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2008-01-04 13:56                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-01-02  8:41           ` tomas
2008-01-03  9:50         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-03 10:16           ` Miles Bader
2008-01-05  5:55             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05  6:59               ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-05 15:29                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 19:53                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-06  8:09                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05  8:55               ` David Kastrup
2008-01-05  9:55                 ` Werner LEMBERG
2008-01-05 15:23                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 15:31                   ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2008-01-05 15:39                   ` David Kastrup
2008-01-06  8:09                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06  9:51                   ` tomas
2008-01-06 11:02                   ` David Kastrup
2008-01-06 12:05                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-01-06 12:40                       ` David Kastrup
2008-01-06 16:51                         ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-01-06 17:03                           ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07  4:18                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05 22:46               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-01-06 18:09                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-07 17:17               ` Gregory Collins
2008-01-07 23:21                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-08  0:25                   ` Gregory Collins
2008-01-08  0:51                     ` David Kastrup
2008-01-08  2:43                       ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-08  3:03                         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2008-01-08  4:25                           ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-08 19:07                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-03 10:32           ` David Kastrup
2008-01-01 17:11     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-01 18:05       ` Werner LEMBERG
2008-01-01 18:27         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-01 18:28           ` Werner LEMBERG
2008-01-02  9:53             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02 10:36               ` Werner LEMBERG
2008-01-02 12:23                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-04  5:27                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02 11:27               ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-01-02 12:17               ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-03  1:26                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-03  2:49                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-04  5:27                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-04  5:35                   ` Miles Bader
2008-01-04 12:47                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 14:30                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06  1:10                       ` Miles Bader
2008-01-04 12:45                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 14:30                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05 15:29                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-05 15:59                       ` Andreas Schwab
2008-01-06  2:14                         ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-03  1:08               ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-03  2:56                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-03  3:18                   ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-04  5:27                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-04  8:51                   ` David Kastrup
2008-01-05 14:30                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-05 15:28                       ` David Kastrup
2008-01-06 10:46                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06 11:10                           ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07  4:18                             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-07  4:36                               ` dhruva
2008-01-07  4:52                               ` Sam Steingold
2008-01-07  5:09                                 ` dhruva
2008-01-07  8:17                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07 15:37                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-01-07 15:47                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07 16:22                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2008-01-07 17:09                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07 15:40                                 ` CHENG Gao
2008-01-07 23:36                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-08  4:31                                     ` CHENG Gao
2008-01-08  5:07                                     ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-08  2:56                                   ` Mike Mattie
2008-01-08  9:37                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2008-01-07  5:16                               ` Jason Earl
2008-01-07 17:16                                 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-07 17:45                                   ` Gregory Collins
2008-01-08 19:07                                     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-08 19:50                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-01-13 20:06                                       ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-14 11:28                                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-07 21:28                                   ` Jason Earl
2008-01-07  8:15                               ` David Kastrup
2008-01-07  8:33                                 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-07 23:50                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-05 21:11                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-06 18:08                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-07  9:35                       ` Piet van Oostrum
2008-01-01 20:53         ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-02  9:53           ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02 12:24             ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-02 15:19               ` David Kastrup
2008-01-02 20:35                 ` Karl Fogel
2008-01-02 19:19                   ` Andreas Schwab
2008-01-02 19:23                   ` Romain Francoise
2008-01-03  1:18                 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-03  7:55                   ` David Kastrup
2008-01-02  9:53         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02 10:03           ` David Kastrup
2008-01-02 10:05           ` Tassilo Horn
2008-01-02 11:31             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-02 11:28               ` Tassilo Horn
2008-01-02 14:26           ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-01-02 19:48             ` Karl Fogel
2008-01-02 18:43               ` Andreas Schwab
2008-01-02 22:10               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-01-03  2:58                 ` Karl Fogel
2008-01-03  1:21               ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-03  9:14                 ` Andreas Schwab
2008-01-03 10:57                   ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-01 19:37       ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-01 21:46         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-01 22:49           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-02 17:05             ` Mark A. Hershberger
2008-01-03  9:49             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02  8:35           ` Tassilo Horn
2008-01-02  5:54         ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2008-01-02 11:52           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-03  9:50           ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02  8:51         ` tomas
2008-01-02  9:53         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-01 22:01       ` Romain Francoise
2007-12-31 13:11 ` Alan Mackenzie
2007-12-31 13:24   ` Miles Bader
2007-12-31 13:44     ` Alan Mackenzie
2007-12-31 15:45       ` Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-31 15:14     ` Juanma Barranquero
2007-12-31 15:31     ` Eric S. Raymond
2007-12-31 15:25   ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-01 20:34     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-01-01 20:57       ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-02  9:53         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02 12:29           ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-02 12:59             ` dhruva
2008-01-02 13:11               ` Miles Bader
2008-01-02 13:17               ` Tassilo Horn
2008-01-02 13:49                 ` David Kastrup
2008-01-04  5:28                   ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-04  7:03                     ` John S. Yates, Jr.
2008-01-05 14:29                       ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-02 13:48               ` Werner LEMBERG
2008-01-02 13:56                 ` dhruva
2008-01-02 14:55                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-03  1:13                 ` Giorgos Keramidas
2008-01-02 14:50               ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-19 17:45 ` Jari Aalto
2008-01-20  2:59   ` dhruva
2008-01-20  5:10     ` Miles Bader
2008-01-20  5:36       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-20  6:03         ` Miles Bader
2008-01-20 19:28           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-20 20:42             ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-20 20:17           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-20 20:28           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-21  2:11             ` Miles Bader
2008-01-21  2:38               ` Karl Fogel
2008-01-21  2:49                 ` Miles Bader
2008-01-21  3:06                   ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-21  3:17                     ` Miles Bader
2008-01-21  3:26                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-21  3:16                   ` Glenn Morris
2008-01-21  4:11                     ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-21 10:00                     ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-01-21  2:41               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-21  3:01               ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-21  9:07   ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-21 15:51     ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-01-21 17:37       ` Miles Bader
2008-01-21 17:53         ` Tom Tromey
2008-01-21 20:06           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-01-21 19:50             ` Tom Tromey
2008-01-22  0:33         ` Dan Nicolaescu
2008-01-24 14:43     ` Mark A. Hershberger
2008-01-24 15:00       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-24 15:34         ` dhruva
2008-01-24 19:52           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-25  0:43             ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-01-25 22:47             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-25 23:13               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-01-25 23:36                 ` Miles Bader
2008-01-27  0:45                   ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-27 17:39                     ` David Kastrup [this message]
2008-01-27 20:06                       ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-27 22:21                         ` David Kastrup
2008-01-27 23:58                         ` Johan Bockgård
2008-01-28  7:17                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-28  7:17                         ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-28  7:57                           ` GNU Project [was: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like] Nick Roberts
2008-01-28 21:32                             ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-28  7:18                       ` What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Richard Stallman
2008-01-28  7:30                         ` David Kastrup
2008-01-28  9:18                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-01-28 21:32                           ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-26  1:23                 ` Thomas Lord
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-01-01  3:09 Nick Roberts
2008-01-01  6:24 ` Eric S. Raymond
2008-01-03 20:32 Trey Jackson
2008-01-04  9:46 ` dhruva
2008-01-05 13:36   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-05 15:04     ` dhruva
2008-01-05 15:13       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-01-06  1:17     ` Miles Bader
2008-01-04 13:43 ` Gianluca Della Vedova
2008-01-05 14:30 ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-06  5:03   ` Trey Jackson
2008-01-06  6:58     ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-07  4:57       ` Trey Jackson
2008-01-07  5:54         ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-06 18:09     ` Richard Stallman
2008-01-07  5:16       ` Trey Jackson
2008-01-07  6:15         ` Nick Roberts
2008-01-07 15:41         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-01-29  5:43 Werner LEMBERG

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