From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:00:41 +0100 Message-ID: <85ablvftqe.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878x1ov227.fsf@jurta.org> <878x1os6mt.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <47B39231.8010108@gmail.com> <200802151711.m1FHB3Y3008798@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203533163 21378 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2008 18:46:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:46:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Sascha Wilde , lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, storm@cua.dk, acm@muc.de, Miles Bader To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 19:46:26 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRtxY-0002oF-5T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:46:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRtx3-0004CL-7E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRsJR-0006S9-LQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:00:53 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRsJP-0006Qh-Cq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:00:51 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRsJP-0006QO-3Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:00:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JRsJH-0006cM-RE; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:00:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.16]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B6324B030; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:00:42 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-04-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107D4ABE83; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:00:42 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-026-202.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.26.202]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE41135E710; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:00:41 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 3561D1CDB1E6; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:00:41 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:52:32 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/5893/Wed Feb 20 09:07:36 2008 on mail-in-06.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:49 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89722 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > Whenever I use "emacs -Q" or some similar "vanilla Emacs", the first > thing that I'm urged to do is M-x transient-mark-mode (and it was > already N=B01 back when fotn-lock-mode wasn't the default). > > Of course, I'm sure I'd be able to learn to live without it. It seems > like an option affect people *very* strongly, so those who want it > *really* want it, and those who don't *really* don't. That means that it has presumably some strong advantages and some strong disadvantages. If they are not immediate consequences of one another, the controversy might be better resolved by lessening the disadvantages rather than having to choose. > So, that's for my personal preference. As to why turn it on *by > default*, here are some reasons why I think it should be ON by default: > - Visual feedback about the mark's position and active status. > I and all (X)Emacs users I know personally (i.e. off-this-list) and > with whom I've talked about transient-mark-mode use > transient-mark-mode (or its XEmacs equivalent) All I know personally can't stand it. Now what? > and find it difficult to use Emacs without it because of the lack of > visual feedback about where the mark really is. Huh? That's what C-x C-x is for (among other things). And if you want a more permanent feedback, even C-u C-x C-x is now available. --=20 David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum