From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Post-22.1 development? Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:47:16 +0200 Message-ID: <85645rvdq3.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <878xb05ras.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <200706101559.l5AFxBFb006829@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <86fy4yg62v.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <466ED07F.9000002@gnu.org> <85fy4wx1tb.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87ejkgkakm.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <85ps3zvgmj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87wsy7lkwy.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181764060 31950 80.91.229.12 (13 Jun 2007 19:47:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:47:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jason Rumney , Stefan Monnier , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 13 21:47:37 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HyYoZ-0002Qy-JF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:47:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HyYoY-0002Sl-ME for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:47:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HyYoU-0002SS-PR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HyYoU-0002S8-BE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HyYoU-0002S5-53 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:47:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HyYoQ-0006a6-UI; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:47:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-07-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.19]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBA324AE62; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:47:25 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (mail-in-05.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.45]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAABE2C6B6E; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:47:24 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-065-130.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.65.130]) by mail-in-05.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D40312F0FA; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:47:24 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id D64E81C3E01D; Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:47:16 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87wsy7lkwy.fsf@stupidchicken.com> (Chong Yidong's message of "Wed\, 13 Jun 2007 15\:22\:05 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72805 Archived-At: Chong Yidong writes: > David Kastrup writes: > >>> I think it's a bad idea to use a shared tail in this way. >> >> I concur it is ugly. However, it is also expedient in that it lets >> us experiment with several concepts of sharing and not sharing >> environment variables, _without_ requiring to meddle with unrelated >> code until we have settled on one or the other paradigm. > > I don't understand what the purpose of this experimentation is. > What exactly do you want to find out with these "experiments"? There have been sharp disagreements as to whether or not this separation is a good idea for unrelated variables, or whether one would want to share between some clients/terminals/sessions or not. No agreement could be reached. Being able to _switch_ will make it possible for users to work with both approaches, with multiple use patterns and requirements. We can then meaningfully poll them at one point of time. > Instead of making a change that we might want to completely revamp > (or, worse, get stuck with an ugly API because it's too much trouble > to revamp), why not just adopt Stefan's very reasonable plan: > >> I think the right way to do it is to change the multi-tty code's >> handling of environment so that it preserves the old behavior (and >> probably breaks some of the multi-tty support), then merge into the >> trunk, then try and fix the multi-tty part of the breakage. Which is pretty much what my proposal is supposed to achieve: preserve the old behavior. It is just that I also have taken the step of proposing a plan how to fix the multi-tty part of the breakage. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum