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Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:47 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04B2TSif019999; Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:47 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x63kqrwf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:46 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 04B2Xdbp023342; Mon, 11 May 2020 02:33:40 GMT In-Reply-To: <87eerrtiia.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=998 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110016 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005110016 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:180045 Archived-At: > > > Because t toggles marks, and C is not a mark, it's a flag. > > > > This is not true. Let's please not go there. >=20 > But if you think so (and I somewhat agree), isn't then the first > sentence in the docstring that Eli didn't touch: >=20 > "Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa." >=20 > even more confusing? I guess Eli wanted to avoid a sentence like "and > files marked with marks other than the * mark don't count as marked." I already agreed that the doc string could be clearer. I suggested this: Toggle `*' marks: unmark marked files, and vice versa. But perhaps this would be even better (since "those" refers to "`*' marks"): Toggle `*' marks: unmark those marked, and vice versa. Or (72 chars): Toggle `*' marks: unmark files marked `*'; mark unmarked files with `*'. IOW, explicitly say that toggling applies to `*' marks. > But the inconsistency goes much further, we say that commands operate > on the "marked" files, but we mean only the *-marked files. See above. (Are you talking about `t' here still? Why do you say "commands" (plural)?) > So I guess the terminology is "marked with" applies to any mark and > "marked" only to files marked with *, and "unmarked" means "doesn't > have any mark". Oh dear, it's like learning English modal verbs. I don't understand. Perhaps I'm missing something. No, there's nothing special about "marked with". `t' replaces all `*' marks with a space - unmarks them. `t' replaces all unmarked (space) with a `*' mark. > I think we can be more specific in the docstring, and I also don't like > to introduce the second term "flag" here since it is somewhat linked to > deletion indeed, and it's meaning is as fluent as "mark" - that doesn't > help. It's _entirely_ linked to deletion, in Dired. Or it was, until Eli's change. > Ok, would something like this be a compromise? >=20 > - Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > - Files marked with other flags (such as `D') are not affected. >=20 > + Toggle marks: marked files become unmarked, and vice versa. > + This means that files marked with `*' are unmarked and files that > don't > + have any mark are marked with `*'. Files marked with any > + characters other than `*' are uneffected. unaffected, not uneffected. That text is fine by me, even if a bit verbose ("This means"). I'd still propose mentioning `*' in the first sentence (the main one) - it's about `*' marks (only). But your text is clear enough, to me. > (the term "marker character" is already used in the manual.) FWIW I don't understand why you added that part in parens to your message.