From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Looking for universal completion with simple UI Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 09:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8550d216-7396-40ac-b690-997bb334a0a4@default> References: <778b7522-e7b5-4ee7-89fa-10548516d79c@googlegroups.com> <0a07ca5d-d79f-42d8-b74c-f8e7b8fdfae0@googlegroups.com> <7126159c-182e-44cf-97b0-6aec73e55c85@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1413563580 8419 80.91.229.3 (17 Oct 2014 16:33:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:33:00 +0000 (UTC) To: dont.spam.earl@gmail.com, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 17 18:32:52 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XfASS-0000ME-Ai for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:32:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33467 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XfASR-0006UO-Ps for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:32:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46726) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XfAR1-0004dK-8p for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:31:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XfAQs-0006da-Dg for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:31:23 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:41091) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XfAQs-0006dV-8E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:31:14 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s9HGVA1N023138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:31:11 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9HGV7d0026208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:31:08 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s9HGV7br007148; Fri, 17 Oct 2014 16:31:07 GMT In-Reply-To: <7126159c-182e-44cf-97b0-6aec73e55c85@googlegroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:100480 Archived-At: > What I have in mind is much narrower: > developing a set of customizations to the interface. As with other > Emacs packages - and as you did with Icicles itself - I may want to > share those customizations down the line if I think they form a > coherent whole. That's the connection I was making to Emacs starter > packages. They offer a variety of ways to get started with Emacs, > and reflect different people's perspectives on how that can be done. > So I'm interested in hearing whether you have any concerns about > this idea from the outset. First, as I said before, setting `icicle-top-level-key-bindings' to nil gives you just such a minimal "starter package". With that, if you use Emacs as if it were vanilla Emacs (i.e., you don't try any Icicles keys in the minibuffer) then you get pretty much vanilla Emacs behavior. Not exactly, but pretty close. And you can then, if you want, progressively choose to use some of the Icicles minibuffer keys. That lets you indulge in Icicles features on demand, at your own speed, and to any limited extent. Runtime, on-demand, make-your-own-starter-kit. You or anyone else. For example: 1. Trying `S-TAB' instead of `TAB' lets you try substring or regexp completion. 2. Trying `S-SPC' after completing lets you try progressive completion (narrow the candidates using another pattern). 3. Trying ` '... followed by `RET' lets you try cycling among completion candidates to choose one. Those 3 basic Icicles features are independent of each other. You can try any of them, with or without the others, at any time. With combinations of just those 3 features, you get eight possible Icicles "starter kits" (none, 1, 2, 3, 12, 23, 13, 123). Second, as to whether you can create your own "customizations to the interface" and share them with others: Of course you can, respecting the GNU Public License that the code is distributed under. That's the whole point of GNU and the GPL: freely sharing source code in a reasonable and freedom-respecting manner. There are by design "a variety of ways to get started with" Icicles. Setting different combinations of option values gives you different such ways ("starter kits"). Different combinations "reflect different people's perspectives on how" to use (or to get started with) Icicles. If you want to share your preferred combination with others and call that the "Earl Icicles Starter Kit", go for it. No problem. Likewise, if you want to customize or enhance the Icicles code in some way that appeals to you, and then share your customization code, go for it (respecting the GPL). You are also welcome to submit enhancement requests for this or that feature or change to be made to the Icicles code. One reason there are so many out-of-the-box ways to customize Icicles (e.g. options) is that different users have requested different ways to use it. The default behavior is, BTW, not the behavior I happen to use, myself. It is the behavior I think most appropriate as the general, default behavior. And yes, it has changed over time. There is nothing holy about a set of default values. They always represent a compromise and a judgment call, taking lots of things into consideration. Different people have different judgments, for different contexts and purposes. A different set of default values gives you a different Icicles "starter kit". And no, there is nothing wrong with sharing your own preferred default values, or values that you think might be helpful as defaults for some particular set of Icicles users, whether starters or others. In sum, I am open wrt concrete suggestions about Icicles default values. Alternatively, you are welcome to publish your own recommended set of default values. HTH.