From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: UI issue: inactive menu entries and icons Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:17:17 +0100 Message-ID: <853b71qhc2.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dough.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1167247244 14101 80.91.229.10 (27 Dec 2006 19:20:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 19:20:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 27 20:20:42 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by dough.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1GzeKG-0005mP-Im for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:20:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GzeKF-0007vg-Vw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 14:20:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GzeK1-0007tj-7D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 14:20:17 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GzeJv-0007s1-9X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 14:20:16 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GzeJv-0007ry-5l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 14:20:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [212.7.152.117] (helo=mxout01.versatel.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GzeJu-0004wv-LR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 14:20:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mx05.versatel.de (mx01.versatel.de [212.7.146.1]) by mxout01.versatel.de (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id kBRJHJZ7006274; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:17:19 +0100 Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (i5387A211.versanet.de [83.135.162.17]) by mx05.versatel.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id kBRJHIiA019518; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:17:18 +0100 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id C56071C4DC3D; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:17:17 +0100 (CET) Original-To: "Drew Adams" In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed\, 27 Dec 2006 08\:47\:29 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.91 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:64364 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: >> [David] In the rare cases where this would be desirable, help-echo can >> be set to a function or cond checking the condition. So I don't think >> we need an extra property for it. > > I don't think the desirability of this would be rare. On the contrary, I > don't see why it wouldn't be the rule that people might like to know when an > inactive menu item would become available. > > If it were the rule, the question would become "Why not always include this > info as part of the `help-echo' property, and forget about another > property?" That's possible too, but this added info is only interesting when > the menu item is inactive. I like Stefan's proposal best, so far. > > > [BTW, I thought we weren't supposed to discuss new features now... Or is > this somehow considered a bug? The subject line says "issue"...] I was not discussing a "new feature". I was proposing changing an irksome default of an existing feature. Stefan then proposed a new feature for that, and I said why I think we would not need a new feature. However, Jan said that, depending on toolkit, this might not be easy to do. I would have guessed that the misfeature (as I consider it) was actively built into our code rather than be a consequence of how the toolkit works (since the behavior seems undesirable not only for Emacs alone). Jan says that this is not the case, and while I am surprised, I have no reason to doubt him. Too bad. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum