From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arevert-xtra.texi xref gremlin Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:41:45 +0200 Message-ID: <851wj1e1w6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87hcryfjkh.fsf@zip.com.au> <200704022335.l32NZgOp027657@jane.dms.auburn.edu> <87648efhbs.fsf@zip.com.au> <86ps6m7y36.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1175625762 4573 80.91.229.12 (3 Apr 2007 18:42:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:42:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: user42@zip.com.au, Eli Zaretskii , teirllm@dms.auburn.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 03 20:42:34 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HYnxd-0001Kf-87 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:42:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYo0n-0005K0-KR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:45:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HYo0E-0004Ok-Fj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:45:10 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HYo0D-0004LH-12 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:45:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYo0C-0004KV-HU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:45:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-07.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.47]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HYnwy-0007p3-KR; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:41:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-07.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B93924B4A1; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:41:46 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (mail-in-13.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.53]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CDA23D460; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:41:46 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-055-059.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.55.59]) by mail-in-13.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5110623D1F0; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:41:46 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id E2B881C460AC; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:41:45 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue\, 03 Apr 2007 10\:52\:55 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.96 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:69012 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > IIRC they also recently voted to consider GFDL'd manuals as free at > the condition that they do not add any extra clause. And any front and back covers. It was somewhat unclear what it would have meant to the Debian AUCTeX maintainer if we had put the standard FSF front and back cover texts on (he likely would have tried muddling through). But in this particular case (the manual had been licensed differently before), Richard let us do without. I think this is basically what the simplified GFDL does: not have invariant sections and, even more, not even have provisions for them. With Emacs, however, the situation is already established and it has the GNU Manifesto as an invariant section under the GFDL. I doubt this is going to change anytime soon. In my opinion, rating the two standard sentences on front and back covers for FSF as "non-free" is completely silly. There has been no Debian vote on those particular texts, though, just on the complete absence of such texts making the GFDL being considered free. > In any case, the problem of Debian's multi-version support with info > files is unrelated to the GFDL. And we can blame Debian all we > want, but I don't think we have many alternatives to offer. Info is > just currently not very good at dealing with such problems. Installing several different versions of software at once? Certainly. Other software can't do this without conflicts. I think it was a mistake by Debian to think they could allow such a contraption for Emacs, when it fails for much simpler systems. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum