Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[C K Kashyap]

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hi All,
I find that my emacs freezes very often - just gets busy for a few seconds
- then I get the control back. Is there a way to debug this situation?
Regards,
Kashyap

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RE: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Drew Adams]

> I find that my emacs freezes very often - just gets busy
> for a few seconds - then I get the control back. Is there
> a way to debug this situation?

Can you interrupt it using `C-g'?  If so, try this:

 M-x set-variable RET debug-on-quit RET t RET

Then hit `C-g' when it freezes and see what is happening in the debugger (e.g.
see what function was executing).  If you think you've found a bug, use `M-x
report-emacs-bug', providing your recipe.

You might also try bifurcating (recursively) your init file and libraries it
loads, i.e., do not load/invoke some of the code you normally do, to see which
code might be causing the problem.

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[jane.harvill]

I have the same problem.  I've made changes to my .emacs file as suggested on a number of discussion panels, and it does not help.  I can not interrupt it using C-g.  I'm convinced there's a bug with gnu emacs on Windows.  Hopefully the people who distribute it (freely) will figure it out.  In the meantime, I'm stuck with some other awful editor.

On Sunday, June 24, 2012 9:22:20 AM UTC-5, Drew Adams wrote:
> > I find that my emacs freezes very often - just gets busy
> 
> > for a few seconds - then I get the control back. Is there
> 
> > a way to debug this situation?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you interrupt it using `C-g'?  If so, try this:
> 
> 
> 
>  M-x set-variable RET debug-on-quit RET t RET
> 
> 
> 
> Then hit `C-g' when it freezes and see what is happening in the debugger (e.g.
> 
> see what function was executing).  If you think you've found a bug, use `M-x
> 
> report-emacs-bug', providing your recipe.
> 
> 
> 
> You might also try bifurcating (recursively) your init file and libraries it
> 
> loads, i.e., do not load/invoke some of the code you normally do, to see which
> 
> code might be causing the problem.

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: jane.harvill@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 13:05:54 -0700 (PDT)
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> I have the same problem.  I've made changes to my .emacs file as suggested on a number of discussion panels, and it does not help.  I can not interrupt it using C-g.  I'm convinced there's a bug with gnu emacs on Windows.  Hopefully the people who distribute it (freely) will figure it out.  In the meantime, I'm stuck with some other awful editor.

FWIW, I'm using Emacs on Windows 7 for weeks on end, and didn't see
even a single incident of such freezes.

There might be a bug, of course, but it is triggered by something that
doesn't exist on my system, at least.  If you want that bug identified
and fixed, I'd encourage you to try to understand what operation
hangs, and then we could try establishing why this happens.

If you cannot interrupt Emacs with C-g, attach a debugger to it.  That
will interrupt any operation, and you can then examine the call stack
and see what was Emacs doing when this happened.

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Tom Davey]

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> FWIW, I'm using Emacs on Windows 7 for weeks on end, and didn't see
> even a single incident of such freezes.

The same here. The precompiled Windows build works like a dream for me
on Windows 7. I could hardly be happier.

Deep thanks to the maintainers of the win32 port.

--
Tom Davey
tom@tomdavey.com
New York NY USA

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Jambunathan K]

I am on Windows XP and my Emacs version is the latest one made available
by Christopher - emacs-20120723-r109189-bin-i386.zip.

It crashes meaning *very randomly* but it does crash.  Obviously I don't
have a recipe to reproduce it.  

It has been so problematic that I switched to the stable version a few
hours back.

Hopefully, things are OK in bzr tree.  I can update on my status once
Christopher announces the next tar ball.

-- 

RE: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Drew Adams]

> I am on Windows XP and my Emacs version is the latest one 
> made available by Christopher -
> emacs-20120723-r109189-bin-i386.zip.
> 
> It crashes meaning *very randomly* but it does crash.  
> Obviously I don't have a recipe to reproduce it.  
> 
> It has been so problematic that I switched to the stable version a few
> hours back.

I think several of us have been having the same or similar problems.  FWIW, I
have only been able to use the last release (24.1) for quite a while now.  Some
bugs, including crashes, get fixed, but new ones (including crashes) are
engendered.

Each week I hope for a new Windows build that works enough to check the fix for
some bug I filed for a previous build.  But in some cases I have not been able
to check fixes because of new bugs (including crashes).  And the Windows builds
are no longer done weekly, it seems, which aggravates this problem.

There seems to be a fair amount of volatility in the C code at this time.  Just
a guess, based on what I see going by in emacs-devel (without paying too much
attention) and what I see in the (Windows) builds I try to use.

This is, fortunately, not typical of Emacs development; it is presumably
temporary.  Let's hope things settle down soon.

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com>
> Cc: 
> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 03:35:46 +0530
> 
> 
> I am on Windows XP and my Emacs version is the latest one made available
> by Christopher - emacs-20120723-r109189-bin-i386.zip.
> 
> It crashes meaning *very randomly* but it does crash.  Obviously I don't
> have a recipe to reproduce it.  
> 
> It has been so problematic that I switched to the stable version a few
> hours back.

That's irrelevant.  If you use the development builds, you need to
accept the very real possibility that a particular revision is
broken.  If you cannot build your own Emacs when the bug is fixed a
few revisions after it was introduced, you might be stuck with an
unusable binary for a week or even more.

I was talking about a released version, and so I believe was the OP.
Please don't muddy the waters by introducing development versions into
this.

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:23:47 -0700
> 
> I think several of us have been having the same or similar problems.  FWIW, I
> have only been able to use the last release (24.1) for quite a while now.  Some
> bugs, including crashes, get fixed, but new ones (including crashes) are
> engendered.
> 
> Each week I hope for a new Windows build that works enough to check the fix for
> some bug I filed for a previous build.  But in some cases I have not been able
> to check fixes because of new bugs (including crashes).  And the Windows builds
> are no longer done weekly, it seems, which aggravates this problem.

Again, this is expected.  I would actually advise people who don't
build Emacs themselves not to use the development snapshots for
anything serious.

> There seems to be a fair amount of volatility in the C code at this time.  Just
> a guess, based on what I see going by in emacs-devel (without paying too much
> attention) and what I see in the (Windows) builds I try to use.
> 
> This is, fortunately, not typical of Emacs development; it is presumably
> temporary.  Let's hope things settle down soon.

Sorry, but I'm afraid this is here to stay, at least for a while.
There are a few contributors to Emacs who tend to make disruptive
commits at least once a week.  I see no signs that they will stop any
time soon.  The only time these attitudes can be kept in check is
during a pretest, or a feature freeze.

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Hilary]

On 2012-08-02 22:37, Tom Davey wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I'm using Emacs on Windows 7 for weeks on end, and didn't see
>> even a single incident of such freezes.
>
> The same here. The precompiled Windows build works like a dream for me
> on Windows 7. I could hardly be happier.
>
> Deep thanks to the maintainers of the win32 port.

+1. Currently using 24.0.94.1 on XP3. It too runs happily for weeks at a 
time.

RE: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Drew Adams]

> > Each week I hope for a new Windows build that works enough 
> > to check the fix for some bug I filed for a previous build.
> > But in some cases I have not been able to check fixes
> > because of new bugs (including crashes).  And the Windows
> > builds are no longer done weekly, it seems, which aggravates
> > this problem.
> 
> Again, this is expected.

No, this degree of volatility is not expected, if expectation is based on past
experience.  This is not near the mean (or median or mode) of the frequency
distribution, in my guesstimation.

New bugs and disruptions are to be expected, of course.  But this amount of
disruption (at the C level in particular, e.g. crashing) is not typical,
fortunately.

As I think you hinted in emacs-devel, this is more like what everyone might have
experienced if you had developed bidi, from the outset, as the main dish,
instead of as a side dish that later, when more or less perfected, was
incorporated into the main dish.

> I would actually advise people who don't build Emacs themselves
> not to use the development snapshots for anything serious.

Oh, no need to worry.  I wouldn't think of using them for anything serious,
believe me.  (Not that I do anything serious with any build or release.)

And the matter has nothing to do with whether someone builds Emacs personally or
uses a binary built by someone else.  Who builds Emacs is irrelevant here.

And the more frequently prebuilt Windows binaries are provided, the easier and
quicker are the reporting and debugging of bugs.  That's an obvious benefit.
Costs include the effort to build and post the binaries, of course.

> > There seems to be a fair amount of volatility in the C code 
> > at this time....  This is, fortunately, not typical of Emacs
> > development; it is presumably temporary.  Let's hope things
> > settle down soon.
> 
> Sorry, but I'm afraid this is here to stay, at least for a while.
> There are a few contributors to Emacs who tend to make disruptive
> commits at least once a week.  I see no signs that they will stop any
> time soon.  The only time these attitudes can be kept in check is
> during a pretest, or a feature freeze.

On n'arrete pas le progres. ;-)

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> Cc: <kjambunathan@gmail.com>, <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 07:10:09 -0700
> 
> > > Each week I hope for a new Windows build that works enough 
> > > to check the fix for some bug I filed for a previous build.
> > > But in some cases I have not been able to check fixes
> > > because of new bugs (including crashes).  And the Windows
> > > builds are no longer done weekly, it seems, which aggravates
> > > this problem.
> > 
> > Again, this is expected.
> 
> No, this degree of volatility is not expected, if expectation is based on past
> experience.

Maybe so, but then you need to adapt your expectations to the changing
reality.

> And the matter has nothing to do with whether someone builds Emacs personally or
> uses a binary built by someone else.  Who builds Emacs is irrelevant here.

It is relevant, because once a fix is committed, people who build
themselves can rebuild and have a stable binary.

> And the more frequently prebuilt Windows binaries are provided, the easier and
> quicker are the reporting and debugging of bugs.  That's an obvious benefit.
> Costs include the effort to build and post the binaries, of course.

Volunteers to provide daily snapshots are welcome.

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Óscar Fuentes]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> And the matter has nothing to do with whether someone builds Emacs
>> personally or uses a binary built by someone else.  Who builds Emacs
>> is irrelevant here.
>
> It is relevant, because once a fix is committed, people who build
> themselves can rebuild and have a stable binary.

... and more relevant to the development process: people can test and
report back about the proposed fix, specifically.

RE: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Ludwig, Mark]

> From: Óscar Fuentes
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:39 AM
> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> And the matter has nothing to do with whether someone builds Emacs
> >> personally or uses a binary built by someone else.  Who builds Emacs
> >> is irrelevant here.
> >
> > It is relevant, because once a fix is committed, people who build
> > themselves can rebuild and have a stable binary.
> 
> ... and more relevant to the development process: people can test and
> report back about the proposed fix, specifically.

Right!  This is the "help" list, not the "devel" list.  As a developer (other software, not Emacs), I expect people who are picking up any recent development version of my software to be other developers, able to deal with the potential for instability.  Only after some stabilization and proper testing would I release anything to a user community that is generally unprepared for this level of instability.  If a user "pulls" the development version before it's ready, s/he gets what s/he deserves.  (To be clear, I am not on the devel list, so have no idea what expectations have been set among the development community about non-developers pulling versions and using them.)

To the point about some unnamed developer destabilizing the source, our industry overall has a very poor record of educating and training new people.  It's generally "baptism by fire" or "jumping in the deep end."  In my office, if we have someone who's drowning, we assign an experienced person to do some direct mentoring to get the new person on the straight-and-narrow.  We also have rigorous code reviews, so we usually catch the drowning people at that point.  There seems not to be effective code review here.  This is all volunteers, after all; I imagine most volunteers just want to write their own code, and don't want to deal with others' code....

Cheers,
Mark

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Óscar Fuentes]

"Ludwig, Mark" <ludwig.mark@siemens.com> writes:

[snip]

> To the point about some unnamed developer destabilizing the source,
> our industry overall has a very poor record of educating and training
> new people.  It's generally "baptism by fire" or "jumping in the deep
> end."

That's not the case currently going on Emacs. There are a few developers
who are working on very delicate, complex (and I'll say controversial)
areas. Others are improving platform-dependent code, which often results
on breakage on some other platform because nobody has the resources for
testing everywhere before committing the changes. All of them are
knowledgeable and responsible people.

It's business as usual, really.

[snip]

RE: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Ludwig, Mark]

> From: Óscar Fuentes
> 
> "Ludwig, Mark" <ludwig.mark@siemens.com> writes:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > To the point about some unnamed developer destabilizing the source,
> > our industry overall has a very poor record of educating and training
> > new people.  It's generally "baptism by fire" or "jumping in the deep
> > end."
> 
> That's not the case currently going on Emacs. There are a few developers
> who are working on very delicate, complex (and I'll say controversial)
> areas. Others are improving platform-dependent code, which often results
> on breakage on some other platform because nobody has the resources for
> testing everywhere before committing the changes. All of them are
> knowledgeable and responsible people.
> 
> It's business as usual, really.
 
Thanks for clarifying.  I guess this is where working in industry has its advantages.  My primary job is maintaining platform-specific code across Windows and several Unices, a mixture of 32-bit and 64-bit environments (LP64 and LLP64, just to add more fun).  I have all supported platforms available at my fingertips, so can test each change simultaneously on all platforms -- and do.

It's rather unfortunate that the platforms are not readily available to the Emacs developers, because frequently it's quite interesting to see which compiler/linker on which platform warns about which subtle problem that's ignored on other platforms ... until run-time.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Jason Rumney]

On Friday, 3 August 2012 22:10:09 UTC+8, Drew Adams  wrote:

> No, this degree of volatility is not expected, if expectation is based on past 
> experience.  This is not near the mean (or median or mode) of the frequency
> distribution, in my guesstimation.

You are comparing development on the trunk shortly after the release of a major version, when everyone commits the changes they've had on hold for the last year or so, and goes crazy with "trivial" cleanup changes (which are probably the cause of much of the disruption), with the situation over the last year or so where the focus has been on making 24.1 stable for release.

RE: Emacs freezes every now and then on my windows 7 pc

[Drew Adams]

> > No, this degree of volatility is not expected, if 
> > expectation is based on past experience.  This is not
> > near the mean (or median or mode) of the frequency
> > distribution, in my guesstimation.
> 
> You are comparing development on the trunk shortly after the 
> release of a major version, when everyone commits the changes 
> they've had on hold for the last year or so, and goes crazy 
> with "trivial" cleanup changes (which are probably the cause 
> of much of the disruption), with the situation over the last 
> year or so where the focus has been on making 24.1 stable for
> release.

No, I did not make such a comparison.  That is your imagination of my
guesstimation.  But thanks for playing.