𝜖 implies large line spacing

𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Marco Wahl]

Hi!

Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
(which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
with the 𝜖?


Thanks

       Marco

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[tomas]

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Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 01:39:09PM +0100, Marco Wahl wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
> (which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
> with the 𝜖?

No. For me, all looks normal. In case it helps, M-x describe-char has
this to say about the display font:

              display: by this font (glyph code)
    xft:-unknown-Liberation Mono-normal-normal-normal-*-11-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1 (#x4F)

And the epsilon:

              display: by this font (glyph code)
    xft:-unknown-DejaVu Math TeX Gyre-normal-normal-normal-*-11-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x64A)

My Emacs font configuration isn't what you'd call "vanilla", though

Self compiled Emacs, pretty bleeding edge:

  GNU Emacs 26.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.29)
   of 2017-03-08

regards
- -- tomás
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Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2017 13:39:09 +0100
> 
> Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
> (which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
> with the 𝜖?

Maybe if your Emacs version is relatively old, and the character is
displayed using some fonts which specify a preposterously large font
size.  Which version of Emacs do you have and what font is used on
your system for this character?

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Florian Weimer]

* Marco Wahl:

> Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
> (which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
> with the 𝜖?

Interesting.  It is indeed very visible in Gnus, with this font:

-unknown-TeX Gyre Termes Math-normal-normal-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1

I think it's a property of the font Emacs selects for this character,
and not really Emacs' fault (except for not sticking to a more useful
font).

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Marco Wahl]

Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:

> * Marco Wahl:
>
>> Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
>> (which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
>> with the 𝜖?
>
> Interesting.  It is indeed very visible in Gnus, with this font:
>
> -unknown-TeX Gyre Termes Math-normal-normal-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1

Thanks for testing.

> I think it's a property of the font Emacs selects for this character,
> and not really Emacs' fault (except for not sticking to a more useful
> font).

Okay.  Thanks for your evaluation.

Actually I'm not so happy with those large line spacings.

I tried some fonts (e.g. Inconsolata and Courier) from Options."Set
Default Font" but did not find any font keeping the line spacing small.

Any hints how to keep the line spacing small?  And even use the
Inconsolata font?


Best regards,
              Marco

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

[-- Attachment #1: message body text --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1094 bytes --]

>>>>> "MW" == Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com> writes:

MW> Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:
>> * Marco Wahl:
>> 
>>> Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
>>> (which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
>>> with the 𝜖?
>> 
>> Interesting.  It is indeed very visible in Gnus, with this font:
>> 
>> -unknown-TeX Gyre Termes Math-normal-normal-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1

MW> Thanks for testing.

I confirm that it is also visible to VM users.

See the attached image.

-- 
ing. Gian Uberto Lauri
Senior Solution Developer
Dir. Tecnica Innovazione Ricerca / Tech. Innovation & Research Div.
GianUberto.Lauri@eng.it

Sun Java Certified Programmer

Engineering Ingegneria Informatica spa
Corso Stati Uniti 23/C, 35127 Padova (PD)

Tel. +39-049.8283.534         | main(){printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],
Fax  +39-049.8283.569		  |    (unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}
http://www.eng.it          	  |          David Korn, AT&T Bell Labs
                  			  |          ioccc best One Liner, 1987


[-- Attachment #2: Untitled.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 6298 bytes --]

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[HASM]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 431 bytes --]


> Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
> (which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
> with the 𝜖?

On putty (xterm), from windows 7, over ssh to a linux box, and a
gnuclient buffer, it generates a tiny epsilon (see attached image, if it
makes it through nntp).  Putty is using Courier New, 10-point, for
"western" text, no idea where the 𝜖comes from.

-- HASM


[-- Attachment #2: Type: image/png, Size: 1 bytes --]

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 14:46:24 +0100
> 
> > I think it's a property of the font Emacs selects for this character,
> > and not really Emacs' fault (except for not sticking to a more useful
> > font).
> 
> Okay.  Thanks for your evaluation.
> 
> Actually I'm not so happy with those large line spacings.
> 
> I tried some fonts (e.g. Inconsolata and Courier) from Options."Set
> Default Font" but did not find any font keeping the line spacing small.
> 
> Any hints how to keep the line spacing small?  And even use the
> Inconsolata font?

I asked which Emacs version was that, and you didn't answer.  What you
see shouldn't happen in latest versions of Emacs, starting with 25.1.

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Felipe Salvador]

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On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 01:39:09PM +0100, Marco Wahl wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Can anyone confirm that C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL
> (which creates 𝜖) yields a large line spacing for the line
> with the 𝜖?

GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) of 2017-01-22 on trouble,
modified by Debian

Not a large line, I cannot even handle this character whit emacs, I attach a couple
of gif(39827 and 27144 bytes). In emacs gif what you see is the effect
of set mark and some movements (backward, forward, up, down). 


> Thanks
> 
>        Marco

-- 
Felipe Salvador

[-- Attachment #2: emacs.gif --]
[-- Type: image/gif, Size: 27144 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: konsole.gif --]
[-- Type: image/gif, Size: 39827 bytes --]

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Florian Weimer]

* Marco Wahl:

> Actually I'm not so happy with those large line spacings.
>
> I tried some fonts (e.g. Inconsolata and Courier) from Options."Set
> Default Font" but did not find any font keeping the line spacing small.

Have you checked with “C-u C-x =” that this actually affects the font
used for this glyph?  For me, setting the default font does not have
any effect on it.  I haven't yet figured out where Emacs finds the TeX
Gyre font.

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Marco Wahl]

Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:

> * Marco Wahl:
>
>> Actually I'm not so happy with those large line spacings.
>>
>> I tried some fonts (e.g. Inconsolata and Courier) from Options."Set
>> Default Font" but did not find any font keeping the line spacing small.
>
> Have you checked with “C-u C-x =” that this actually affects the font
> used for this glyph?  For me, setting the default font does not have
> any effect on it.  I haven't yet figured out where Emacs finds the TeX
> Gyre font.

Thanks for the hint.  For me C-ux = yields :
            character: 𝜖 (displayed as 𝜖) (codepoint 120598, #o353426, #x1d716)
    preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
code point in charset: 0x1D716
               script: mathematical
               syntax: w 	which means: word
             category: .:Base, L:Left-to-right (strong)
             to input: type "C-x 8 RET 1d716" or "C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL"
          buffer code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96
            file code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
              display: by this font (glyph code)
    xft:-PfEd-Latin Modern Math-normal-normal-normal-*-15-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x112)
...

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Florian Weimer]

* Marco Wahl:

> Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:
>
>> * Marco Wahl:
>>
>>> Actually I'm not so happy with those large line spacings.
>>>
>>> I tried some fonts (e.g. Inconsolata and Courier) from Options."Set
>>> Default Font" but did not find any font keeping the line spacing small.
>>
>> Have you checked with “C-u C-x =” that this actually affects the font
>> used for this glyph?  For me, setting the default font does not have
>> any effect on it.  I haven't yet figured out where Emacs finds the TeX
>> Gyre font.
>
> Thanks for the hint.  For me C-ux = yields :
>             character: 𝜖 (displayed as 𝜖) (codepoint 120598, #o353426, #x1d716)
>     preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
> code point in charset: 0x1D716
>                script: mathematical
>                syntax: w 	which means: word
>              category: .:Base, L:Left-to-right (strong)
>              to input: type "C-x 8 RET 1d716" or "C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL"
>           buffer code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96
>             file code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>               display: by this font (glyph code)
>     xft:-PfEd-Latin Modern Math-normal-normal-normal-*-15-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x112)
> ...

After an upgrade to Debian stretch, I now get this font instead:

      xft:-unknown-DejaVu Math TeX Gyre-normal-normal-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x64A)

And the problem is gone.  The extended height for the original font
(TeX Gyre Termes Math) no longer shows up in LibreOffice Writer either
(where it did before).  So there has been a bug fix, likely not in
Emacs, but I don't know if it's the font metrics which have been
fixed, or some shared part of font rendering.

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Alexis]

Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:

> * Marco Wahl:
>
>> Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:
>>
>>> * Marco Wahl:
>>>
>>>> Actually I'm not so happy with those large line spacings.
>>>>
>>>> I tried some fonts (e.g. Inconsolata and Courier) from Options."Set
>>>> Default Font" but did not find any font keeping the line spacing small.
>>>
>>> Have you checked with “C-u C-x =” that this actually affects the font
>>> used for this glyph?  For me, setting the default font does not have
>>> any effect on it.  I haven't yet figured out where Emacs finds the TeX
>>> Gyre font.
>>
>> Thanks for the hint.  For me C-ux = yields :
>>             character: 𝜖 (displayed as 𝜖) (codepoint 120598, #o353426, #x1d716)
>>     preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
>> code point in charset: 0x1D716
>>                script: mathematical
>>                syntax: w 	which means: word
>>              category: .:Base, L:Left-to-right (strong)
>>              to input: type "C-x 8 RET 1d716" or "C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL"
>>           buffer code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96
>>             file code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>>               display: by this font (glyph code)
>>     xft:-PfEd-Latin Modern Math-normal-normal-normal-*-15-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x112)
>> ...
>
> After an upgrade to Debian stretch, I now get this font instead:
>
>       xft:-unknown-DejaVu Math TeX Gyre-normal-normal-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x64A)
>
> And the problem is gone.  The extended height for the original font
> (TeX Gyre Termes Math) no longer shows up in LibreOffice Writer either
> (where it did before).  So there has been a bug fix, likely not in
> Emacs, but I don't know if it's the font metrics which have been
> fixed, or some shared part of font rendering.

Well, there were certainly issues with the font metrics of Latin Modern
Math, such that Firefox showed line height issues also:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1208776

(Cf. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1170782 for
background.)


Alexis.

Re: 𝜖 implies large line spacing

[Marco Wahl]

Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:

>>>> Actually I'm not so happy with those large line spacings.
>>             character: 𝜖 (displayed as 𝜖) (codepoint 120598, #o353426, #x1d716)
>>     preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
>> code point in charset: 0x1D716
>>                script: mathematical
>>                syntax: w 	which means: word
>>              category: .:Base, L:Left-to-right (strong)
>>              to input: type "C-x 8 RET 1d716" or "C-x 8 RET MATHEMATICAL ITALIC EPSILON SYMBOL"
>>           buffer code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96
>>             file code: #xF0 #x9D #x9C #x96 (encoded by coding system utf-8-unix)
>>               display: by this font (glyph code)
>>     xft:-PfEd-Latin Modern Math-normal-normal-normal-*-15-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x112)
>> ...
>
> After an upgrade to Debian stretch, I now get this font instead:
>
>       xft:-unknown-DejaVu Math TeX Gyre-normal-normal-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#x64A)
>
> And the problem is gone.  The extended height for the original font
> (TeX Gyre Termes Math) no longer shows up in LibreOffice Writer either
> (where it did before).  So there has been a bug fix, likely not in
> Emacs, but I don't know if it's the font metrics which have been
> fixed, or some shared part of font rendering.

Okay.  For now I simply try to avoid characters which lead to huge line
spacing with my settings.

BTW: Accidentially I found ε which does not disturb the line size as
much as 𝜀 does here.