From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Next release Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 00:53:18 +0100 Message-ID: <84D953F9-9CB4-4878-A89A-CAEEC65B41AF@gmail.com> References: <18457.37369.262079.668907@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <200805040056.m440u3eS022727@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <874p9dn46h.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4822B82A.6030003@gnu.org> <86zlr1qjq3.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <4822D898.4000000@swipnet.se> <85r6c9hpgu.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1210463627 28387 80.91.229.12 (10 May 2008 23:53:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 23:53:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, lekktu@gmail.com, jasonr@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, eliz@gnu.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 11 01:54:21 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JuytO-0004sl-K5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 11 May 2008 01:54:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41405 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Juysg-0006Fv-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 May 2008 19:53:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Juysc-0006Fa-GK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 May 2008 19:53:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Juysb-0006FM-2Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 May 2008 19:53:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43620 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Juysa-0006FJ-Le for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 May 2008 19:53:29 -0400 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]:8594) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JuysZ-0006FD-Vc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 May 2008 19:53:28 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c7so1080491nfi.26 for ; Sat, 10 May 2008 16:53:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=dvp0O3WKSqYrOgaBSs/bVQpjEp7taUFNICiu+GlrIvY=; b=IgIR7P0x+C+RPdCjsnHypAmcVZP/lK68GTpgjzZQTZ4aVsE0FUvHwTBaQbv+WyHBlWP9x4Azo5YJErkHWPpPtDigKETlpqHs6627wfTC9ToJzkhtrZz2yiVwOgIMxUZKNqUFwTPFj5eFdY15+U6b4zzUc35rh1yBpi9ZnmOsD2Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=b6Wy6MMM7Gby9ftICCILvBgWBmmIPum7O7PZvLw9FXQ/vUB5CurfRyi0TrlLj21ZY8sq5ea8ajbwHdy4QTw9nKyT66xTgmsbhzGlf6lEnNerO9MgnWqn+Heo6iLEI/UK+jzBQp47af8/huAd9Xtio2C4wUJUZhGq9OJwWmXqTzU= Original-Received: by 10.210.48.14 with SMTP id v14mr5853503ebv.112.1210463605980; Sat, 10 May 2008 16:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from scarlett.lan ( [172.159.50.146]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 7sm9968421nfv.32.2008.05.10.16.53.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 10 May 2008 16:53:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <85r6c9hpgu.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:96951 Archived-At: On 10 May 2008, at 21:30, David Kastrup wrote: >> >> I suggest mapping the frame beforehand, as now, >> if --debug-init is specified. > > This could turn display related startup bugs into Heisenbugs > (disappear > when trying to debug them). Yes, but these would likely be bugs in Emacs and not the user's code, such as bug #166. They should be rather rare! Frame operations ought to work on visible and invisible frames alike, correct? > I'd go that way only if we find that just > putting the debug-init output onto either startup splash or stderr > really don't do the trick. Is that instead of entering the standard debugger? Is the non-debuggable visibility issue going to cause enough problems to merit this sort of workaround? > It would be my guess that an option like > --debug-init would mostly be given on a console, so stderr might > actually work pretty well for a traceback or something. The normal debugger allows interaction and inspection of variables etc. That's nice to have.