From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Qiantan Hong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Question collaborative editing. Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 23:40:53 +0000 Message-ID: <84B86B7C-81F0-42DF-894C-BF577E4B3D6E@mit.edu> References: <20200924013655.asv2tem25cbwv5et@Ergus> <2ACED303-9A2C-4363-BE56-2E9AF0B8DC85@posteo.net> <20200925002239.fgg3vw2nylltcoyp@Ergus> <219042AC-556D-48CC-8920-82D9BF2BD3AA@aol.com> <3A81FB67-A558-4281-8285-CDD9B01033E3@posteo.net> <1C949FC9-6023-467E-99EC-75D57B08AFB0@gnu.support> <20200929124513.fd745r2txowwbiir@Ergus> <87blho7af9.fsf@red-bean.com> <20200929215849.zg4wzytbrwx2b7ih@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3865760A-AAF4-41C3-9362-236EE0543FB4"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40352"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Fermin , Jean Louis , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Karl Fogel , Stefan Monnier To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 01:44:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNPHy-000AP2-MN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 01:44:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48170 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNPHx-0008Jg-Mo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:44:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42152) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNPFC-0007H0-2B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:41:17 -0400 Original-Received: from outgoing-exchange-5.mit.edu ([18.9.28.59]:55708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNPF6-0002fg-LH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:41:12 -0400 Original-Received: from w92exedge4.exchange.mit.edu (W92EXEDGE4.EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU [18.7.73.16]) by outgoing-exchange-5.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 08TNekGf023684; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:41:03 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by w92exedge4.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.73.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:40:13 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:40:53 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:40:53 -0400 Thread-Topic: Question collaborative editing. Thread-Index: AQHWkA+RtV3K1wr9B0aFczVHqkD+n6lzGC2+gAByx1WAA75ZgIABUIuAgAAtCoCAAKrvgIAEEd+AgAGGOACAABFAAIAAe9OAgABIs4CAAA5xVYAAjDuAgAAchYA= In-Reply-To: <20200929215849.zg4wzytbrwx2b7ih@Ergus> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [18.18.245.17] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.9.28.59; envelope-from=qhong@mit.edu; helo=outgoing-exchange-5.mit.edu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/29 19:41:06 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows 7 (Websense crawler) X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256736 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_3865760A-AAF4-41C3-9362-236EE0543FB4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > In the library level we could (and maybe should) implement both (OT = and > CRDT). This will only require a hint from the server side (or the > connection starter client) to inform the client's libraries "what to = use > this time". Then practice will say what's better. >=20 > ATM we could start with a C library in order to provide a nice free > back-end editor agnostic. Because IMO the most interesting part of = this > will be to open emacs to interact with other editors with a free > infrastructure emacs-centric. I=E2=80=99m not sure if it=E2=80=99s easy (or worth the effort) to = provide CRDT in an=20 editor-agnostic way from C-level. Seems that the most natural choice is to tag characters with CRDT data structures. Emacs has text property which is very suitable for this, and I=E2=80=99m = implementing it in this way as an Elisp library. However, this relies on the = particular data structure for buffer/text emacs uses. If implemented as a separate C library, I imagine the CRDT library need to have its own buffer/text data structure and somehow keep in sync with Emacs=E2=80=99 .. doesn=E2=80=99t sound so clean.= --Apple-Mail=_3865760A-AAF4-41C3-9362-236EE0543FB4 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCA70w ggO5MIIDIqADAgECAhAaql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjEwHhcNMjAwODAzMDEyNDIz WhcNMjEwODAxMDEyNDIzWjCBoTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFjAUBgNVBAgTDU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMx LjAsBgNVBAoTJU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMgSW5zdGl0dXRlIG9mIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kxFTATBgNVBAsT DENsaWVudCBDQSB2MTEVMBMGA1UEAxMMUWlhbnRhbiBIb25nMRwwGgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg1xaG9u Z0BNSVQuRURVMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAylUlEQdK4BSXKzoGh6As CKN/TpLmC0kjhPdxUKMj1/86Xl6GDCla4h95uISDOWVAKdu3cIlA8m9zRLT2jNEIkt1DVpXP6c9h y8RRyfJm0qlrvr6tsHi5AmO4Li6s2dEGaTxbakPL6vEn7ZYr86t5orq56nubki77Z8ZvRv9/fWdF bF/YBNGDayLNk0NbXIEQdCHiz1l+bxfw+GHHRmdOge3MKWSg463+GGMdxtLQ61AbtR2vm47FIJBt c0X6ptcInWUg4Nf/9vSNGl6KvREvfbEWKCT6TfL5ncIFlitf6ZWKue2PZ4ULFfIQ3/7EsEk03xxr S7sTOy7e2dbPboe/WwIDAQABo4GhMIGeMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgWgMB0G A1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0OBBYEFDeb9Jlj XSm+y0CD872IhzRDIGv1MDMGA1UdHwQsMCowKKAmoCSGImh0dHA6Ly9jYS5taXQuZWR1L2NhL21p dGNsaWVudC5jcmwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADgYEApBTx4tBbD5rQ+bNGd/Z3OBV07qFsm5QHNg0+ 6lxJ3j7q5zMMq35o6y5cBIhcFG6t+MFqJIdERZ3EprDturyqozQsIBMHFnqh+iZcMg0uQyssEqKZ hrzIdw8GuY4Z6jNewdGy5mwwG9yjpEbzWWgdofSM5rnezZz7EvCQu9ilt1sxggNDMIIDPwIBATCB gDBsMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEWMBQGA1UECBMNTWFzc2FjaHVzZXR0czEuMCwGA1UEChMlTWFzc2Fj aHVzZXR0cyBJbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgVGVjaG5vbG9neTEVMBMGA1UECxMMQ2xpZW50IENBIHYxAhAa ql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAQUAoIIBkzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0yMDA5MjkyMzQwNTRaMC8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEiBCDZnvN+3lUJ Y+4bGcKV36PVu1UVIEkP7mft2YGqoH6cBDCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGDMIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGX nXswgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNo dXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUw EwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGXnXswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEA v32lIVZ4Yn9synUr6VkThHQXrn4kEVCm+IlyJwK5tL2sMYq0EdN+gRpXpfjkV4MhbaXp1/i1y0f6 j6wIA/NoyqDOZOyFDInD0FKOGMKPVj2hYp7vhiYEUdk1ODUnxGtDjNOrV/Mu8T8dMFRvfsUsv1jl zFk9sTV4FgKlf8G0P4p/t0YICT2P4wLS2fsWa/OtVExWZ+q1k0FLLLpTCGthW0O2xYsVptReUOds GAeCpFYmzLFTkYgk6/HYw2/758O3qBn9H7zw6BwelhhqcMwGvxbRuYM0O+XAY5PGsEWOsspEhQVE T17p5LGFWw3/hAihLc2Qbj85/6hEdgil/8A9GwAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_3865760A-AAF4-41C3-9362-236EE0543FB4--