From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow? Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 14:09:45 +0300 Message-ID: <8463581c-c40f-a66a-5c9c-0995a3b45cd0@yandex.ru> References: <20190514235412.kncazq45szlum2gr@Ergus> <83v9yb92c7.fsf@gnu.org> <878sv7sp3r.fsf@telefonica.net> <83r28z8zl9.fsf@gnu.org> <20190515210924.sijzy6mnpgzkt4gm@Ergus> <83ftpecwu1.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516161408.4dov3dwk5h4yoizn@Ergus> <838sv6cmwt.fsf@gnu.org> <20190516202327.5cgy2s4kppy3ahxa@Ergus> <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net> <3210C8E9-7A74-47D6-81A0-470948E6D09C@gmail.com> <87r28xq0j1.fsf@telefonica.net> <576240a5-c92a-5cf8-898b-43f214a2b580@yandex.ru> <83imu9beyn.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="202642"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 To: Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 17 13:23:08 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hRaxA-000qXa-9Y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 13:23:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46860 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRax8-00023i-Vu for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 07:23:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58095) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRakJ-00018S-Bu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 07:09:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRakH-0005lb-Uq for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 17 May 2019 07:09:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]:38090) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hRakH-0005kC-NE; Fri, 17 May 2019 07:09:49 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id y19so5036876lfy.5; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:09:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=45AeTanbTOZaXMNGmApkr6Reied6YhL2ZLhxBG/W/1M=; b=GyRZcnpIDOMQxrEcUwACrTSvjbfHAT2hWFxChgVXYAcqCX5LrVOkXyuwCXzTs+PHz+ JcwkYdjeCEGRByfSDWfQJ9Pyap8ng+SiT7/G0hn0kT7FjuTsyZZXnh3kNIGvkE5WIst+ Q8XwFRpPVjS+9vQ8mNZ6522SjGCZGH5kh+6MuYBVrYlBaooXJlH/5O0NRGzUuoEqhdmv roKOxH6sXosa5KgBKkttLNnnCu9Fjtg4yHnmGfIvqKOsc/o44WTNJBQ+GwmAyrQXifbs STfRkdfRkPrLs4bRFHngjBJbwW66Q2u5BHGLq8WBtXddcdEIz7df07l3VuaMFKuTQqUg xICQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=45AeTanbTOZaXMNGmApkr6Reied6YhL2ZLhxBG/W/1M=; b=AhlFeEXyiuWpBBqepK0w1Ol0UB9puCV9FKvHW5x0+cW+TbP1YE2jBS6Z+rora/9ETb CpJWmoGPr8jpXoBv/nWorseASq6o8buzYzNgX1cQO1iIHWUraBIsPPxec8Onyd6DeTZw /vGss7Siu4HVbPZh9iSEEHupA7J0264Hvsxh5PRPS+zdlaAXVmj0cdigsTfdeE4AgPm5 BzLiFAHQLkpM2fHXUTcKGcdwe26XZrNPE1tV+4yVQTWP8wko6bQIc/IVbml4iydIv8Yd a9m/ww2t6mkBJn+uL7plmfLZVOAsQzlEzTqA+ehROpnM+zdeuWuS3L7i4hhVn5lQihkB 7F7g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVSpWRLtjYPmQzG/x2avvF3xomljw7aK6eXxzYvQ6jJrOt3rJQm zKBTXdZy+0kugYIdc7ZrUVsK/H4U X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx599Juy9hAyaXysdyXE8VryYpWfyJIxR2x1rJ9YZGYmAmU0s0XKwOLgEEkkEoOcBnHITcYYw== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:51d1:: with SMTP id u17mr27014267lfm.151.1558091388104; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([185.105.174.23]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g20sm1367403lja.67.2019.05.17.04.09.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 May 2019 04:09:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83imu9beyn.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::12f X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120469 Archived-At: On 17.05.2019 12:36, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 11:54:50 +0300 >> >> Vim is consistent. > > So is Emacs. Inconsistencies in key bindings are rare exceptions in > Emacs. Even the tutorial makes the point of explaining the rules for > consistent keybindings in basic editing commands. In the basics, sure. But I wouldn't still be using Emacs if it only provided basics. We pride ourselves on being more than just an editor. But the more features a program provides, the more important it is to have a logical common structure and similar underlying principles under all those features. Or how else is a person supposed to remember how to use all of them? Anyway, you seem to be agreeing with me, but this discussion started from Ergus giving an example of one such inconsistency. And I have yet to see you state a solid opinion about it in particular.