From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: a key system to replace gnu emacs's 1000 default keybindings Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 15:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <845ee258-5d81-414e-a9dc-b57db100eb9e@o3g2000pby.googlegroups.com> References: <5ee2582c-026b-4ab3-b5a7-c2d3e66ff511@oe8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <4d8a8454-22d9-44a3-9f57-7d5791534d30@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com> <4FC00690.9090200@thadlabs.com> <7db350db-3809-4ba1-97cd-c4b97357cd4c@pr7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1338073214 24885 80.91.229.3 (26 May 2012 23:00:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 23:00:14 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 27 01:00:13 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SYPy0-00060D-SY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 May 2012 01:00:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33846 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SYPy0-0003zK-Ld for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 May 2012 19:00:12 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!o3g2000pby.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs,comp.lang.lisp Original-Lines: 110 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.126.112.84 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1338073085 17606 127.0.0.1 (26 May 2012 22:58:05 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 22:58:05 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: o3g2000pby.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.126.112.84; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/536.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/19.0.1084.52 Safari/536.5,gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:192597 comp.emacs:102484 comp.lang.lisp:310088 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85003 Archived-At: Dan Espen wrote: =C2=ABPerhaps you should read more carefully. Thad remapped Caps Lock to ANOTHER Ctrl. He didn't SWAP anything.=C2=BB Xah wrote: =C2=ABthat doesn't matter. Those who use capslock for Ctrl basically only use that single key for Ctrl.=C2=BB Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: =C2=ABNot true. I have capslock mapped to control, but I hardly ever use it; the only reason for doing it is to prevent turning capslock on accidentally.=C2=BB So, you don't use Capslock for Ctrl, therefore i was right. Welcome to the thread, LOL. ------------------------------ Now i'll spoil our nice chat by adding more info... The Capslock position for Ctrl is actually not bad. Excellent design in fact. For example, of the 3 keyboard designs i admire, one of them is =E2=80=9CTruly Ergonomic=E2=80=9D (TE). See: =E3=80=88Ergonomic Keyboards Gallery=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_keyboards.html on TE, it actually put Shift key on the capslock position, on both sides of the keyboard! What a fantastic, great, thoughtful, design. Question: Why are you against the Capslock position then? Answer: it's because the tech-geeking fuckheads. There are certain class of programers, a subculture, who pride themselves around the term hacker. These people, collectively loosely have certain way or habit and thought pattern, and a subset of them are loud-mouthers on some issues (such as our Thad Floryan fellow here, who, every time would sting me about Capslock/Ctrl switch when i write about keyboard. Which, is perfectly fine, just don't blame me for my equally reasonable responses.) The hacker types (for lack of better term), often insists on certain geek ways that are often scientifically baseless and harmful. For example, the advice to swap Ctrl/Capslock, the cry against GUI, the cry against mouse, the numerous unix slogans, the adoration of emacs, the slogan about laziness (perl), the slogan about lambda knight or adoration of lisp as god lang, usually given as dogma. Motherfucking fuckheads. For example, one slogan =E2=80=9CBe conservative in what you sen= d; be liberal in what you accept.=E2=80=9D which damaged the web for 2 decade. But what's technically wrong with swapping capslock with ctrl? Here's the deal. On a newly designed keyboard such as that TE, the position to the left of A is a top valued position. Also, notice that TE keyboard is symmetric, fixing one of the major problem of traditional keyboard. So, Capslock or Shift are on the right side at the same place too. (similar to Enter key, but without extra key column in between) If you are designing a new keyboard, it's great. But if you are creating workaround over standard PC keyboard, then the advice of swapping Capslock/Ctrl is a entire new story. For example, you could swap Ctrl/Alt. The Alt is used by thumb, and available on both sides. That is immediately superior workaround on most keyboards (except laptops). There are many issues, alternatives, i've analyzed in detail in my article and i won't repeat here. But the thing about the motherfucking techgeekers, such as our Thad Floryan fellow here, is that they often blindly insists on hackerdom dogma. Sure, on many situations, swapping Capslock/Ctrl is a perfect solution. For example, on laptops. On laptops, keys are tiny, especially the Alt key, and usually they are not available no right side. The Capslock key on laptop is a big key. It's really a great solution. But you see, tech geekers are not concerned about this. Thad, never give the qualifications about swapping capslock/ctrl. Instead, they typically go like this: =E2=80=9CI type for decades, never ha= d problem, you should swap Capslock/Ctrl, it's how keyboard should be, look at Sun Micro keyboards, and all the keyboard of 1920s. God designed that way. And look at vi keyboard, h j k l. emacs and vi. and IBM Model M! God says. Therefore you should. KISS.=E2=80=9D =E3=80=88Computing Culture: What's Hacker?=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/Netiquette_dir/whats_hacker.html =E3=80=88What is a Tech Geeker?=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/tech_geeker.html =E3=80=88HTML5 Doctype, Validation, X-UA-Compatible, and Why Do I Hate Hackers=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/js/html5_validation_doctype.html =E3=80=88Are You Intelligent Enough to Understand HTML5?=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/html5_vs_intelligence.html =E3=80=88The Idiocy of Hacker Keyboards=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/emacs/keyboards_hacker_idiocy.html =E3=80=88GUI Makes People Dumb?=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/gui_and_dumbness.html =E3=80=88Paul Graham's Infatuation with the Concept of Hacker=E3=80=89 http://xahlee.org/comp/Paul_Graham_language_design.html Xah