From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: fontsets/charsets documentation suggestion Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:07:38 +0300 Message-ID: <83zlbk27n9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <2349B30D-81A8-4018-A484-80EA84FB6498@gmail.com> <83prci3nhp.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1246694892 28967 80.91.229.12 (4 Jul 2009 08:08:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:08:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eric Abrahamsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 04 10:08:05 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MN0I0-0001l6-Sg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:08:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57442 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MN0Hz-0006Ig-Rd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:08:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MN0Ht-0006H4-Qs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:07:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MN0Hr-0006FM-Qh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:07:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47737 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MN0Hr-0006FD-Kc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:07:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout7.012.net.il ([84.95.2.19]:19095) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MN0Hr-0000O9-1z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:07:55 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.i-mtaout7.012.net.il by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KM800A00ZVMA600@i-mtaout7.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:07:38 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.194.175]) by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KM800BB0ZWQRSC0@i-mtaout7.012.net.il>; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:07:38 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112003 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Eric Abrahamsen > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:40:56 -0700 > > > This is in the manual, see the node "Character Sets" and maybe the > > other nodes from its parent "Non-ASCII Characters", if you need more > > background. > > > > If something is missing or unclear, please post more specific gripes. > > Hmm, I wonder if this is part of the problem. Section 26 of my Emacs > Info file is 'International Character Set Support', and everything > relevant seems to be under this heading. I don't see a 'Character > Sets' or a 'Non-ASCII Characters' node. There's no index entry for > 'registry', neither does a grep of the info files for 'registry' > produce any definition of the word as related to fonts. Am I looking > in the wrong place? (I'm using a CVS build on Mac OSX, the ns > Emacs.app version.) I meant the Emacs Lisp manual, not the User manual. Sorry, I should have made that clear, but for some reason (perhaps because you mentioned create-fontset-from-fontset-spec) I thought you were already looking there, and that you need this information for writing Lisp code. > The existing examples would be clear if I'd gone into it actually > understanding the difference between a charset, a script and a > registry, and knowing which variables contained the possible values > for each of these three concepts. My particular use-case was defining > specific fonts for English/Latin, Chinese and Thai, and I did not > understand where 'han' came from, and its relationship to 'chinese- > gb2312' (I have since been directed to charset-script-alist). If I'm > actually missing a chunk of the documentation this would be better. > > There aren't any examples of using create-fontset-from-fontset-spec, > and it would be nice to see one or two. The documentation for the > function is technically correct, I'm sure, but is the kind of > documentation that's only useful if you already understand how it > works. Neither 26.15 Defining Fontsets nor the documentation say how > you actually employ a fontset once you've made it. This has got to be > one of the most complex areas of Emacs customization, and it would be > nice to err on the side of too much hand-holding. I agree that the description of fontsets in the User manual is barely minimal, especially if the user (a) needs to create complex fontsets dealing with several different character sets, and (b) does not already know quite a lot about character sets. The problem is that most people who work on the manual know very little about subtleties and intricacies of fontsets, and it clearly shows in the quality of that section. I wonder if the stuff in the ELisp manual helps in any way. If it does, we could copy some of it, with suitable editing, into the User manual.