From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:48:48 +0300 Message-ID: <83zkz0jzlb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <874oh9jwqw.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276340406 4207 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 11:00:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:00:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 13:00:04 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONORX-0004SP-Lz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:00:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47207 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONORW-00073C-IW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 07:00:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=46457 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONORL-0006xt-Sp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:59:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONOHE-0003Yy-1p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:49:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:36055) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONOHD-0003Yn-Md for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 06:49:23 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W00300DZXF700@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:48:50 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.119.36]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W003VWE1B8100@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:48:48 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125806 Archived-At: > From: Lennart Borgman > Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:04:28 +0200 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , David Kastrup , > James Cloos , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Looking around on the internet (not being a bidi reader) it seems to > me that it is mostly a programming mistake to let the arrow keys > change direction. (Somehow maybe also from a beginners perspective the > right arrow might mean "go forward".) However for someone editing > texts in some way this is awkward IMO. Here are some links: I know all these references, and have a few more. I agree that it would be nice to have all the features they preach about. People are welcome to step forward and implement them; I even made a point of implementing some infrastructure to support these features. I'm not saying that logical-order motion is the only mode we should have. I'm saying that it's the absolute minimum, without which Emacs would be unusable with bidirectional text. And that is why I implemented them -- to have Emacs minimally usable for editing bidirectional scripts. > - http://wiki.sibawayhi.org/keyboard - READING IS NOT CURSORING! The author of this page is an enthusiastic users of the current Emacs, so I guess practice is not necessarily so black-and-white as it sounds. > - http://www.qsm.co.il/Hebrew/logicUI22.htm - "The logical approach is > sometimes preferred by implementors, mostly because its implementation > is easier. "Easier" my foot! Believe me, it's not at all easy in Emacs, with all its advanced display features.