From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#11091: 24.0.94; emacsclient -t Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:13:56 +0300 Message-ID: <83zkavidd7.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83ty15jdtp.fsf@gnu.org> <83mx6xj6ez.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1333300500 29010 80.91.229.3 (1 Apr 2012 17:15:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 17:15:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, 11091@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dani Moncayo Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 01 19:14:58 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOMj-0007b8-UT for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:14:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36988 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOMj-0007ph-6l for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:14:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:38411) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOMf-0007pG-SP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:14:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOMd-0006M7-Jj for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:14:53 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38470) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOMd-0006M2-FR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:14:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOMn-00040r-Q9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:15:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 11091 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 11091-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B11091.133330046615369 (code B ref 11091); Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:15:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 11091) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2012 17:14:26 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35008 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOME-0003zp-4K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:14:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:45986) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SEOMB-0003zh-3s for 11091@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:14:24 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0M1T00600961IC00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 11091@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:13:51 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.100.223]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0M1T00349972ZW81@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:13:51 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:58445 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 10:44:35 +0200 > From: Dani Moncayo > Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, 11091@debbugs.gnu.org >=20 > >> > [...] Emacs can create a graphical frame even if it was starte= d in a > >> > text-only terminal, provided it is able to connect to a graphi= cal > >> > display, and provided it can create graphical frames when star= ted > >> > from a text-only terminal. > >> > >> Isn't this wording a bit awkward? =A0"Emacs can do X, provided i= t is > >> able to do Y, and provided it can do X" > > > > I don't see anything awkward here. =A0Using only one "provided th= at" > > would produce an ambiguous sentence, so I used it twice. >=20 > The problem are not the two "provided that", but having "X" as a > prerequisite for itself. Is this better? @item -c Create a new graphical frame, instead of using an existing Emacs frame. Emacs can create a graphical frame even if it was started i= n a text-only terminal, provided it is able to connect to a graphical display. If it is unable to connect to a graphical display, and on systems, such as MS-Windows, where it cannot create graphical frame= s when started from a text-only terminal, Emacs creates a new text-on= ly terminal frame (@pxref{Frames}). If you omit a filename argument while supplying the @samp{-c} option, the new frame displays the @samp{*scratch*} buffer (@pxref{Buffers}). > >> On the "-t" option: > >> > >> > Create a new Emacs frame on the current text-only terminal, in= stead > >> > of using an existing Emacs frame. =A0If Emacs can open a text-= only > >> > terminal even if it was started in another text-only terminal,= or on > >> > a graphical display, it will create a text-only frame on the c= urrent > >> > terminal. > >> > >> That is, "Do X instead of Y. =A0If Emacs can do X even if Z, it = will do > >> X.". =A0Not much clean, IMHO. > > > > The second "X" is not really a literal "X", it uses different > > wording. =A0I see no problem. >=20 > The second sentence of this paragraph is IMO too long (not easy to = parse). How about this? @item -t @itemx --tty @itemx -nw Create a new Emacs frame on the current text-only terminal, instead= of using an existing Emacs frame. Emacs can open a text-only terminal even if it was started in another text-only terminal, or on a graphical display. On systems, such as MS-Windows, where this is impossible, Emacs will create a new frame, either GUI or text-only,= on the same display where it was started. If you omit a filename argument while supplying this option, the new frame displays the @samp{*scratch*} buffer. @xref{Buffers}. > >> Here the last part ("on the same terminal where...") gives the > >> impression that the new frame will be created on a terminal, > >> regardless of whether it is GUI or text-only. > > > > "Terminal" is used here in its Emacs sense, and you seem to think > > about something slightly different. >=20 > I think of "terminal" as a shell program designed to interact with = the > system using a text-only command-oriented interface. So far I've n= ot > seen in the manual other meanings for this. So, saying that a > graphical Emacs frame will be created on a terminal marks no sense = to > me, but I can be wrong, of course. I tried to fix that as well, see above. > In short: I prefer my version of the doc fix :-)