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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "Clément Pit--Claudel" <clement.pitclaudel@live.com>
Cc: 21028@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#21028: Performance regression in revision af1a69f4d17a482c359d98c00ef86fac835b5fac (Apr 2014).
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:27:09 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83ziglz1gy.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <abcb1806-0928-1bdb-58c0-73d171e0e51a@live.com> (message from Clément Pit--Claudel on Wed, 15 Mar 2017 16:46:33 -0400)

> Cc: 21028@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Clément Pit--Claudel <clement.pitclaudel@live.com>
> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 16:46:33 -0400
> 
> > The problem here is that opening a font and looking up a character is
> > very expensive, certainly when there are hundreds of fonts installed.
> > So Emacs filters the fonts according to the scripts they claim to
> > support, and only opens those which appear to be valid candidates for
> > the script of the character it needs to display.  By using 'unicode as
> > the script when you set up your fontset, you actually trip Emacs by
> > telling it to try this font for every character it needs to display.
> > You should instead specify the scripts which the fonts supports well.
> 
> Ok — but why wasn't it slow in 24.3?

That's the question about the significance of the zero_vector in the
font-cache, the patch you want to apply.  I'm still struggling with
understanding why it speeds up the font search.

> And why does the number of fonts matter, 
> if I'm only adding one (Symbola) with 'unicode?

Any font has several variants, and they are all checked.  Moreover,
checking too many fonts conses a lot of Lisp data, which is likely to
trigger GC, which is likely to throw away font caches, which will then
require us to check those fonts again.

> > That shouldn't be a problem in Emacs 25: it by default uses the
> > default face's font for any punctuation and symbol characters for
> > which the font has glyphs, even if the fontset specifies a different
> > font for punctuation and symbol blocks.
> 
> Neat.  Though of course that doesn't help for Emacs < 24.

Users who care about fonts and exotic characters shouldn't stay with
Emacs 24.

> > So using more accurate scripts gives a major improvement.  Good.
> 
> It also seems to negate the previous conclusion, right?

Not really.

> In these fast example I'm still adding Symbola with 'unicode — but
> adding Ubuntu Mono with 'latin.

Ubuntu Mono _is_ the problem.  Symbola has very good coverage of
almost all Unicode blocks, so it is not the problem.

> > That could sometimes be the case, but I have found that in some cases
> > omitting the registry for characters beyond Latin-1 can be a major
> > setback.  So I recommend to always use it.
> 
> Ok.  Could Emacs not infer it?

I think Emacs still goes by the XLFD rules, which require iso8859-1 be
the default.  I don't know how important it is to keep that
compatibility.

> > You can use a font utility, such as Fontforge, to see which blocks the
> > font supports, and how many characters from each block it can display.
> > My conclusion from looking at Ubuntu Mono is that the above 3 scripts
> > are the only ones it supports well; the rest are not covered well at
> > all.  You can, of course, add more scripts if you need them, but the
> > downside will be that some of those scripts will be displayed by a mix
> > of more than one font, which I think will make the display ugly.
> 
> I don't care about the display being pretty as much as it being properly align 
> (vertically), which means that using Ubuntu Mono helps a lot.

That's fine, just don't tell Emacs Ubuntu Mono supports the entire
Unicode.

> > Moreover, Emacs cannot compose glyphs that come from different fonts,
> > so you will sometimes see decomposed display if you request a font for
> > scripts where its support is incomplete.  I think this is an important
> > factor for users of prettify-symbols-mode in particular.
> 
> Why? prettify-symbols-mode composes strings (typically) into single characters, 
> so why would this matter?

I imagine that prettify-symbols-mode is not limited to single existing
characters, but if it is, this issue is indeed not relevant to that
mode.

> >> (dolist (ft (fontset-list))
> >>   (set-fontset-font ft 'unicode (font-spec :name "YOUR-USUAL-FONT"))
> >>   (set-fontset-font ft 'unicode (font-spec :name "Symbola") nil 'append))
> > 
> > Well, maybe with the new insights you have now, you can recommend them
> > better setups which don't use 'unicode'.

> I think I still have a blurry picture of the whole process, or at least it 
> sounds very complicated.  Is it really the following?
> 
> * Pick a good monospace font.  Set that as the default Emacs font (this is easy)

Yes.

> * Pick a good math font.  Symbola is easier than others, because Emacs knows 
> about it.

Yes.

> * Download and install fontforge.  Figure out which ranges the math font 
> support, and all the characters that it supports that are not punctuation or 
> symbols, too

Not needed, as long as the default font is set up via
default-frame-alist.

> * Create a set-fontset-font rule for each range and character.  Figure out the 
> font's registry too.  Add all these rules with 'append, though for better 
> performance you can use 'prepend, but for that you'll need to know which ranges 
> the first font supports, too.

Should not be needed at all, as math symbols are already set up in the
default fontset (if I understand correctly what you need the math font
for, see below).  Definitely not needed if Symbola is to be used.  For
other Math fonts, I expect the default to just work; if it doesn't,
I'd like to see bug reports.

> In Emacs 25, given that symbols use the default font,  it looks like the 
> following should work, at least with your patch:
> 
>   25.1/src/emacs -Q --eval "(set-fontset-font \"fontset-default\" 'unicode 
> (font-spec :name \"XITS Math\") nil 'prepend)"

What happens if you don't do this?  Which font is used for math
symbols?  Or are the problems with symbols other than math symbols?
IOW, I don't understand fully why you need to set up XITS Math in the
fontset, what is missing/incorrect/ugly if you don't?





  reply	other threads:[~2017-03-16 15:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-07-10 10:34 bug#21028: Performance regression in revision af1a69f4d17a482c359d98c00ef86fac835b5fac (Apr 2014) Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-07-10 12:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-07-10 16:02   ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-07-10 12:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-07-10 16:55   ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-07-15 12:32     ` Dmitry Antipov
2015-07-18 10:24       ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-07-18 11:16         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-07-18 11:26           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-07-18 20:08             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-03-03  6:12       ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-03-03  6:42         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-03-03  7:08           ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-03-03  7:33             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-03-03 17:10               ` Glenn Morris
2016-03-03 17:28                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-03-03 20:27               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-07-20 21:26                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-07-21 14:21                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-07-21 14:33                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-07-23 20:50                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-04 22:17                       ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-26 17:15                         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-27 14:38                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-27 15:29                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-27 15:55                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-28 14:23                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-28 14:33                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-18  8:55                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-18 17:33                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-18 17:37                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-18 18:04                                         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-18 19:52                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-18 20:44                                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-19 15:50                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-19 16:25                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-19 16:39                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-19 16:55                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-19 16:58                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-19 17:13                                                         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-22 16:25                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-22 16:49                                                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-22 18:04                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-22 19:08                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-02-10  4:45                                                                   ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-12 11:38                                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-12 15:49                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-12 17:24                                                                         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-12 17:48                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-12 19:19                                                                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-13 15:46                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-13 16:36                                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-13 17:22                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-13 19:04                                                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-13 20:53                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 19:45                                                                                         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-15 15:37                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 15:45                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 19:35                                                                                         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-15 15:36                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-15 20:46                                                                                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-16 15:27                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2017-03-16 21:23                                                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2017-03-17  8:15                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-04-16  7:48                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-04-16 15:28                                                                                                   ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-19 17:00                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2015-07-10 15:42 ` Glenn Morris
2016-03-03  6:37   ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-10-04 18:56 ` Jason Gross
2017-03-13 15:54 ` bug#21028: Slow font rendering in emacs Ralf Jung
2017-03-13 17:05   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-13 18:12     ` Ralf Jung
2017-03-13 20:39       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 15:57         ` Ralf Jung
2017-03-14 17:11           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 18:50             ` Ralf Jung
2017-03-14 19:16               ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 19:17             ` Ralf Jung
2017-03-14 20:49             ` John Mastro
2017-03-15 15:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 15:47   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 18:41     ` Ralf Jung
2017-03-14 19:16       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-14 19:39         ` Ralf Jung
2017-03-14 19:45           ` Ralf Jung
2017-03-15 15:36           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-04-22  8:54             ` Ralf Jung
2017-04-22 13:40               ` Eli Zaretskii

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