From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 07:58:50 +0300 Message-ID: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y341q8cb.fsf@gmail.com> <83y33edr2a.fsf@gnu.org> <20190510212531.GA82150@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83sgtleczm.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7ftdzq8.fsf@gnu.org> <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="35186"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com To: Alan Third Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 12 07:10:39 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgkv-0008zl-SM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 07:10:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38820 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgku-0008CM-Sh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:10:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47587) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgkm-0008B2-7V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:10:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgah-0008UG-3f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:00:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:56285) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgah-0008U4-0V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:00:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgag-0002Mz-PS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 01:00:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 05:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35389 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 35389-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35389.15576371629035 (code B ref 35389); Sun, 12 May 2019 05:00:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35389) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 May 2019 04:59:22 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPga1-0002Le-J0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60806) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hPga0-0002LR-47 for 35389@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51817) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgZt-0007qd-7t; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2196 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hPgZr-00031D-KS; Sun, 12 May 2019 00:59:12 -0400 In-reply-to: <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (message from Alan Third on Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:159114 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100 > From: Alan Third > Cc: Robert Pluim , 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, > npostavs@gmail.com > > > > (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil))) > > > > > > to > > > > > > (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control))) > > > > What is the logic behind the value proposed for macOS 10.7, though? > > It sounds like Shift will _increase_ the scrolling amount instead of > > decreasing it in the default value? What is the reason for such > > reversal? > > I can’t recall... I think it was just something somebody provided as > an option and nobody disagreed. > > Some of the previous discussion is available here: > > http://emacs.1067599.n8.nabble.com/Smoother-macOS-touchpad-scrolling-td435666.html I don't see the above discrepancy discussed anywhere, nor any justification for switching Shift from causing slower scrolling to causing faster scrolling. Did I miss something? What I see is 2 kinds of arguments: . Acceleration applied by Emacs makes scrolling too fast because macOS itself accelerates by default . The default amount of scrolling -- 5 -- is too large for macOS (not sure why -- is that also due to macOS defaults?) The first of these could be handled by turning acceleration off on macOS 10.7 by default. Maybe the same with the latter. Although I don't understand why the system's default scrolling should matter, because AFAIK Emacs scrolls by its own commands, it doesn't use the system for that. Why Shift should _accelerate_ on macOS was never discussed, in any of the linked discussions or the links inside them (stack-overflow etc.) I understand now that this ship has sailed with Emacs 26, which I regret, because I think it was a serious mistake to make at least part of those changes. Maybe we should try fixing that in future versions. There's also the issue with trackball that differs from a real mouse wheel. I don't think I understand why it's an Emacs problem; do other apps somehow distinguish between the trackball and the mouse and produce a different behavior? If so, why cannot Emacs distinguish between them? There was also a question in the 2017 discussion regarding how to know we are near the top or bottom of the buffer. is that still an issue? Maybe I don't understand the problem, because the answer is trivial, we have 2 macros that provide the limits of the buffer's accessible portion, and another macro that provides the value of point. If you need the position of the window-start, that is also readily available. Bottom line, I'd like to change Shift back to cause slow-down of the scrolling, as on other platforms. Maybe also change the default itself back, and just make the acceleration off on macOS 10.7.