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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Gregory Heytings <ghe@sdf.org>
Cc: larsi@gnus.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Suggest installing more fonts?
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 10:46:23 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83zh4lthv4.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.NEB.2.22.394.2010170037550453.28110@sdf.lonestar.org> (emacs-devel@gnu.org)

> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 23:02:37 +0000
> cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> > I know.  I was just pointing out that there are several problems 
> > (missing fonts is one of them, but not the only one), so before trying 
> > to solve "the problem", we should be clear about which one it is and try 
> > and figure out whether it's indeed the most common.
> 
> A user has (usually) no idea of these "several problems", and knows even 
> less how to fix them.  For such users the problem is simply "Emacs 
> displays gibberish".  That is "the problem" IMO.  Everything else are 
> technicalities that very few know/understand/have the patience to deal 
> with.
> 
> So IMO for these users it would be much better to display characters with 
> a low-resolution font, together with a warning (and perhaps a pointer to a 
> short guide) (as a help-echo and/or in the echo area), instead of a tofu.

Then the problem will become "Emacs uses an ugly font where other apps
don't", and we are none the wiser.

IMO, we should try fixing whatever problems are there (and AFAIU
there's more than one) without using ugly fonts.  For example,
problems with displaying Emoji are due to some missing infrastructure
(see a separate discussion about that), and once we add that, the
result will be much better than anything you could get with Unifont.

IOW, using Unifont is simply a kind of admission of defeat: we don't
really know why Emacs doesn't find a good font, so we take the easy
path of providing _some_ font that will always work, albeit show ugly
glyphs.  I see no need to declare defeat, as we have facilities in
Emacs to solve these problems in a better way, once we understand
them.  We should therefore try to understand the problems better, and
once understood, solve them properly.



  reply	other threads:[~2020-10-17  7:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 118+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-10-16 10:54 Suggest installing more fonts? Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-16 11:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 11:30   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 12:50     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 12:59       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 13:13         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 14:38           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 15:48             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 16:09               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 18:48                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 19:40                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-17  6:57                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 13:49                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-17 14:08                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 15:04                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-17 15:18                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 13:24     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-16 14:08       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 15:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 15:51           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 13:24   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-16 13:30     ` Rudolf Schlatte
2020-10-17  6:14       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-16 14:41     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17  6:23       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-17  8:55         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-18  8:03           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-18 15:21             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-19  8:31               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-19 14:50                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-20 10:28                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-20 14:31                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-21 10:46                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-21 11:31                         ` Michael Albinus
2020-10-21 11:58                           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-21 14:54                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-21 16:03                             ` tofu-help-mode (was: Suggest installing more fonts?) Stefan Monnier
2020-10-22 12:07                               ` tofu-help-mode Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-22 15:21                                 ` tofu-help-mode Stefan Monnier
2020-10-23 10:46                                   ` tofu-help-mode Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-21 17:46                             ` Suggest installing more fonts? Michael Albinus
2020-10-21 18:14                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-22  7:27                                 ` Michael Albinus
2020-10-22 13:09                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23 16:53                                     ` Michael Albinus
2020-10-23 18:13                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-25 11:47                                         ` Michael Albinus
2020-10-25 15:19                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-21 17:25                           ` Juri Linkov
2020-10-21 11:59                         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2020-10-21 12:05                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-21 12:31                             ` Stephen Berman
2020-10-21 14:47                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-21 20:19                           ` Rasmus
2020-10-22  2:34                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-22 12:34                               ` Rasmus
2020-10-22 13:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-21 20:19                           ` Rasmus
2020-10-22 11:32                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-22 12:02                             ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-22 12:08                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-22 12:29                                 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-22 13:31                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23  3:49                                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-23  6:59                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23  8:28                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-23 11:01                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23 15:50                                           ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-23 16:38                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-23 18:03                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23 18:43                                               ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-23 19:31                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-24  9:35                                                   ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-23 10:45                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-23 11:07                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23 14:59                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-23 17:56                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23 18:13                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-23 18:23                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-23 18:36                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-23 18:18                                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-22 13:16                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-22 13:40                               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-22 13:52                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-22 14:20                                   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-22 15:50                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 18:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-16 19:13   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16 19:37     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-17  6:37       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 13:44         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-16 19:42   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 19:49     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-16 22:14       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-16 22:35         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-16 23:02           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-17  7:46             ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2020-10-17 11:21               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-17 12:13                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 13:09                   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-17 13:33                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 16:09                       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-17 16:30                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 17:37                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-17 17:58                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 18:36                               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-17 18:50                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 18:56                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 19:18                                   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-17 19:33                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-18  8:06                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-18 14:55                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-17 17:30                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-18  4:12             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-18 14:45               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-20 22:46       ` Stephen Leake
2020-10-17  6:31   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-17  9:08     ` Eli Zaretskii

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