From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#58634: Long delay with blank screen whilst loading desktop at emacs startup Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 19:28:05 +0300 Message-ID: <83zgdqwjca.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83edv3zud8.fsf@gnu.org> <837d0vyssv.fsf@gnu.org> <83czamy76j.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34256"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 58634@debbugs.gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 20 19:01:20 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1olYuu-0008V9-Pe for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 19:01:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53880 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olYur-0001Wc-27 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 13:01:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [::1] (helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olYtw-0002NJ-9D for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 13:00:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59806) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olYPq-0002b2-FZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:29:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:36941) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olYPm-0007pj-4e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:29:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1olYPl-0005KN-Vq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:29:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 16:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 58634 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 58634-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B58634.166628330020424 (code B ref 58634); Thu, 20 Oct 2022 16:29:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 58634) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Oct 2022 16:28:20 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36019 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1olYP5-0005JL-Mj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:28:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1olYP3-0005J8-Lb for 58634@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:28:18 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36732) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olYOw-0007LM-PN; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:28:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=y7jg1zC1pwHm6AhvRmdSXoneFcGZjzM4QfuZa0o22CY=; b=pjqoIfSLxeqP Lfj5l5owanx3q0GYZ3EwuWJo0bKBIA+LoFaO4Z/y/7kmP92s/VxNHgwEMHsnzPlO0bfKGEZIDx/m/ yTooUcjBJSx3xkoAJ05meIiqmScOBKLatVSYXBQJrotZvVC3mdrHOuGMfX23ht2tK7zQ8Ysy7vmn/ pBPCISZcQNgoQXw+NQNNMgXZR7HgMQLB5pM/MyJjgnrL32v271z+3wniZ3C5Pvkl6N8lZed1Dj34r TlZGamYRg6QO0DS013j8Ptu751wosZ+zOqB3aBqBZaQ7NxEesWwZ41QVXbR6Uj4VXW/FzSzCDa+gA I5Pv6PSpp0z79H6VyhEKlQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2509 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1olYOv-0000hi-Mk; Thu, 20 Oct 2022 12:28:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 20 Oct 2022 15:28:48 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:245940 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 15:28:48 +0000 > Cc: akrl@sdf.org, 58634@debbugs.gnu.org, acm@muc.de > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > Because once redisplay is triggered, it runs to completion, whether > > it's "slow" or not. So if redisplay doesn't happen in one case it > > means it wasn't triggered. Things that trigger redisplay are calls to > > 'message', to 'sit-for', explicit call to 'redisplay', and some others. > > I am puzzled by what is triggering the redisplay at all. Redisplay will > happen when "Emacs is waiting for input" Or when triggered by specific API calls I mentioned above. > but that means solely keyboard and mouse input, doesn't it? Also window-system events. > It doesn't mean file system input, does it? No, not if you mean "normal" file I/O (as opposed to, say, inotify). > So once Emacs starts the desktop loading with a call to `load', there > would appear to be nothing (in my setup, not yours) to trigger redisplay > until the load is complete. But it happens in a GUI Emacs and sometimes > in a tty Emacs. It happened for me on the linux console when I rebuilt > my Emacs 29 without native compilation; I got, IIRC, two buffers > displayed. That's exactly what needs to be explained: what triggers redisplay in the GUI session and why doesn't it happen in the -nw session? > > > If you agree with me that this needs fixing (I think you do), I have two > > > ideas on how to fix it: > > > I don't yet see what is the problem we are supposed to fix here. Even > > if, after we dig deeper into this and understand why the frame stays > > blank in the console case, why is that a problem that needs fixing? > > Because it looks, for an extended period of time, like Emacs has hung > completely. That just takes getting used to. And anyway, let's postpone this part of the discussion until we understand what happens in the -nw session that makes it behave differently. because we are talking about a phenomenon we don't understand well enough. > This is going to irritate people, and might prompt some users to > abort Emacs. If it can be 18 seconds blank screen for me, it could > easily be 2 minutes for somebody else with a larger desktop file or > a slower machine. I don't see why it should irritate: you cannot do anything with Emacs during that time anyway.