From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2023 16:13:32 +0200 Message-ID: <83zfzx8stv.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y1fl9ful.fsf@gmail.com> <871qdci3fr.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87y1fkgjof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87v8aogj1u.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87o7gdhgfp.fsf@dataswamp.org> <837cn1ac24.fsf@gnu.org> <87il6lhc3u.fsf@dataswamp.org> <8334xpaagc.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4131"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: incal@dataswamp.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 01 15:14:04 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qyByu-0000x5-3U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Nov 2023 15:14:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qyBya-000567-DD; Wed, 01 Nov 2023 10:13:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qyByZ-00055r-6R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Nov 2023 10:13:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qyByX-0006uD-TR; Wed, 01 Nov 2023 10:13:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=QIu0ZGGlQ7OJToCOZLcqKI+y0/+GF3ia4vc90Z4+QXE=; b=qV4nBooXKUYy WFRBJG2pO9nV+aR/nUTVAPS0vOCRGgf16xkXHzhJBsxUNfYh/xSIVgEgMSdzb5JH01hWpFG3bY/Ov 2MRNWN+TVOKa/Bqv+Zmy6TCpgQedoZ31KXy1IFCHq6Z+DmnJimCxEUcs/dpQ0nbeYgg7u8ZeIRdkx u6vQftTl/VOBOw/m1Gk/hgD+jVTxc7mXdmP1zFd9ayoFlHrOytQh8Yn6gjqTP+flaiZ7K9hUHJXQB u1YF1mfeaD8EFsMrkRq4BdaRgdBBONfbJMzm+mOrJ2ukzcvnoDsiUt9WPMTRjVVa9Oqzxdoha4Q6O ca8Xb1Tf9KYXqhPPoY0rJg==; In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Wed, 1 Nov 2023 14:09:15 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312070 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 14:09:15 +0000 > Cc: Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > Maybe we need to add to the list the functions in > > cl-extra.el and cl-seq.el? > > I think so. Richard's concern is the sheer bulk of cl-*, which adds > complexity to the language by virtue of the mass of detail which both > new and experienced Emacs hackers have to cope with. That complexity > exists regardless of when those functions and macros get loaded. > > So, from that point of view, cl-extra.el and cl-seq.el are certainly > relevant, as is cl-macs.el, and maybe one or two others. No, cl-macs is not relevant, since those are just macros, they leave no trace after compiling.