* bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing [not found] <80ehk9nm9p.fsf@gmail.com> @ 2012-11-05 17:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-11-05 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Vincent Belaïche; +Cc: 12774 > From: Vincent Belaïche <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr> > Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 21:30:58 +0100 > > > Do you have some old org.el on your system? The current version > > doesn't have a call to org-mode-p inside > > org-install-agenda-files-menu, it does this: > > [...] > > > As you see, it uses (derived-mode-p 'org-mode), not (org-mode-p). > > I have the same (derived-mode-p 'org-mode) in the org.el which comes > with the crashing EMACS, however you are right: at some point of time I > had copied org.el from .../Emacs/lisp/org to ~/.emacs.d/etc which is in > my load-path *before* .../Emacs/lisp/org. This was because I wanted to > make some experiment on paragraph justification. So the org.el that is > loaded and that causes this (org-mode-p) not defined error is the one > from ~/.emacs.d/etc and not the official one coming with EMACS, and it > is older because since then I have updated my BZR source tree ! > > I have renamed this ~/.emacs.d/etc/org.el to org.el.old, and I am trying > to make EMACS crash with that, and it seems that the crash does not > happen any longer. > > Ok, I now admit that this older org.el was some *MISTAKE* of mine. Sorry > for all the distrubance which again I caused. Do you still consider that > bug#12774 is a real bug at all ? It's certainly a bug: nothing Lisp does should ever crash Emacs. Anyway, I installed a change (revision 110784 on the emacs-24 branch) that should fix this problem. If you can try with the old org.el, please do so to verify that the crashes are gone. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing @ 2012-11-01 5:23 Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-04 19:50 ` bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-07 20:40 ` Vincent Belaïche 0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Vincent Belaïche @ 2012-11-01 5:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 12774 What I do to get the crash is the following 1) start emacs from MSWindows system programme menu 2) `C-x d' 4) then go to directory `C:/Programme/GNU/installation' 5) then navigate with Dired mode `i' command to subdirectory cedet-install/cedet 6) then go down to file USING_CEDET_FROM_BZR 7) then type RET to visit the file I must say that the crash does not always occur, sometimes it does, and sometimes it does not. At this point of time, I am not even sure that the bug would not happen with -Q command line option when starting emacs, but I could not get it happen this way (I tried only once). I am not even sure either that Dired-X is to blame, actually I could get the crash once with `C-x C-f' directly to c:/Programme/GNU/installation/cedet-install/cedet/USING_CEDET_FROM_BZR I have not yet started to dichotomize my init file to find what cause the crash, since the crash does not happen always that will be lengthy before I can zoom to what is to blame. I tried to gdb the crash. I compiled with MSYS gdb 7.5 and did the following (I could not get the bracktrace...), below when I type `help where' the crash already happened : ----------------------------------------------------------------------- gdb -exec=c:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/bin/runemacs.exe GNU gdb (GDB) 7.5 Copyright (C) 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Type "show copying" and "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i686-pc-mingw32". For bug reporting instructions, please see: <http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>. (gdb) run Starting program: c:\Programme\GNU\Emacs\bin\runemacs.exe [New Thread 5708.0x17d8] [Inferior 1 (process 5708) exited normally] (gdb) warning: Can not parse XML library list; XML support was disabled at compile time help where Print backtrace of all stack frames, or innermost COUNT frames. With a negative argument, print outermost -COUNT frames. Use of the 'full' qualifier also prints the values of the local variables. (gdb) where (gdb) No stack. bt full (gdb) No stack. xbacktrace (gdb) Undefined command: "xbacktrace". Try "help". quit /c/Documents and Settings/Vincent> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- In GNU Emacs 24.2.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-10-09 on CHOUNEK Bzr revision: 110428 vincentb1@users.sourceforge.net-20121009041317-1rfqa5j1otvu6a1s Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.6) --cflags -I C:/Programme/GNU/installation/emacs-install/libXpm-3.5.7/include -I C:/Programme/GNU/installation/emacs-install/libXpm-3.5.7/src' Important settings: value of $EMACSPATH: c:\Programme\NGNU\CVS;C:\Programme\GNU\GnuPG;c:\Programme\apache-ant-1.8.0\bin;c:\msys\1.0\bin;c:\msys\1.0\mingw\bin; value of $LANG: FRA locale-coding-system: cp1252 default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Info Minor modes in effect: shell-dirtrack-mode: t recentf-mode: t mail-abbrevs-mode: t iswitchb-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t buffer-read-only: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Recent input: <down> <up> <up> <up> <down> <down> i <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <down> <down> i <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> C-x d <M-backspace> <M-backspace> g n <tab> e m <tab> - 2 <tab> 4 <tab> 2 <tab> i n <tab> <return> <down> <down> C-s E m <down> C-s e m <right> I s b u g <return> s <return> <left> <return> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <return> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> u <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <return> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <next> u u <right> <down> <down> <return> t s @ g n u <return> s <return> s <return> s <return> s <return> s <return> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> M-x r e p o r t - e m <tab> <return> Recent messages: Loading dired-x...done Mark set [7 times] Making completion list... 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c:/Programme/GNU/installation/auctex-install/reftex/lisp/reftex-index hides c:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/lisp/textmodes/reftex-index c:/Programme/GNU/installation/auctex-install/reftex/lisp/reftex-global hides c:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/lisp/textmodes/reftex-global c:/Programme/GNU/installation/auctex-install/reftex/lisp/reftex-dcr hides c:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/lisp/textmodes/reftex-dcr c:/Programme/GNU/installation/auctex-install/reftex/lisp/reftex-cite hides c:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/lisp/textmodes/reftex-cite c:/Programme/GNU/installation/auctex-install/reftex/lisp/reftex-auc hides c:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/lisp/textmodes/reftex-auc Features: (shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr warnings emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils misearch multi-isearch help-mode dired-aux dired-x dired info shell pcomplete comint ansi-color ring accents-ascii eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cconv tex-mik preview-latex tex-site auto-loads calc-mathfloat calc-math edmacro kmacro cl-macs gv w32utils java-init cl cl-lib bsh-init recentf tree-widget wid-edit generic-x easymenu template mailabbrev iswitchb cus-start cus-load calc-misc calc-arith calc-ext calc calc-loaddefs calc-macs skeleton time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 disp-table ls-lisp w32-win w32-vars tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process multi-tty emacs) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing 2012-11-01 5:23 bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Vincent Belaïche @ 2012-11-04 19:50 ` Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-05 17:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-11-07 20:40 ` Vincent Belaïche 1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Vincent Belaïche @ 2012-11-04 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 12774 [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4859 bytes --] > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 18:44:51 +0200 > From: eliz@gnu.org > Subject: Re: bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing > To: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr > CC: 12774@debbugs.gnu.org > > > From: Vincent Belaïche <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr> > > Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 23:24:15 +0100 > > > > The crash can happen without my doing anything special previously > > except opening that attached file USING_CEDET_FROM_BZR which causes > > loading orgmode. Also it seems that it has to do with the size of my > > init.el file --- and not only to its content. > > OK. Here's what I'm asking you to do. Start Emacs under GDB, like > this: > > c:\Documents and Settings\Vincent>gdb C:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/bin/emacs.exe > > (Note: do NOT invoke Emacs via the --exec= switch, since that does not > load the symbol table and other debugging info from emacs.exe.) > > Once GDB shows its prompt, type these commands: > > (gdb) break ralloc.c:353 > (gdb) break w32heap.c:141 > (gdb) break w32heap.c:155 > (gdb) run > > Please verify that the 3 source lines where you set breakpoints are > the ones marked below: > My ralloc.c is Bzr-110429 and the breakpoint line is 352 instead of 353 > ralloc.c: > > if ((*real_morecore) (- excess) == 0) > { > /* If the system didn't want that much memory back, adjust > the end of the last heap to reflect that. This can occur > if break_value is still within the original data segment. */ > >>>>>>> last_heap->end = (char *) last_heap->end + excess; > /* Make sure that the result of the adjustment is accurate. > It should be, for the else clause above; the other case, > which returns the entire last heap to the system, seems > unlikely to trigger this mode of failure. */ > if (last_heap->end != (*real_morecore) (0)) > emacs_abort (); > } > My w32heap.c is Bzr-110429, and the breakpoint lines are 194 instead of 141, and 208 instead of 155. > w32heap.c: > > /* Sanity checks. */ > if ((data_region_end - size) < data_region_base) > >>>>> return NULL; > > /* We can only decommit full pages, so allow for > partial deallocation [cga]. */ > new_data_region_end = (data_region_end - size); > new_data_region_end = (unsigned char *) > ((DWORD_PTR) (new_data_region_end + syspage_mask) & ~syspage_mask); > new_size = real_data_region_end - new_data_region_end; > real_data_region_end = new_data_region_end; > if (new_size > 0) > { > /* Decommit size bytes from the end of the heap. */ > if (using_dynamic_heap > && !VirtualFree (real_data_region_end, new_size, MEM_DECOMMIT)) > >>>>> return NULL; > } > > If your sources are different, adjust the line numbers in the "break" > commands accordingly. > > Now do whatever you usually do to get Emacs to crash, and wait for one > of the breakpoints to break (they will break before the crash, so > don't expect the abort dialog). > > Then please tell which of the breakpoints on the 2 "return NULL" in > w32heap.c breaks. If it's the second one, the one after the call to > VirtualFree, please type this command: > > (gdb) print w32_last-error() > The break occurred in the 3rd breakpoint (second one in w32heap.c), i.e. *NOT* the one after the call to VirtualFree, but one the previous one in the same file. > (note the parentheses: they are important) and tell what it prints. > > Then please type "continue", which should stop at the breakpoint in > ralloc.c, and tell what do the following commands produce: > > (gdb) print last_heap->end > (gdb) print last_heap->bloc_start > (gdb) print excess > (gdb) print sbrk(0) > > Also, please type "xbacktrace" and post the Lisp-level backtrace this > produces. If you don't invoke GDB from the src directory, you may > need to type "source /path/to/emacs/src/.gdbinit" to make "xbacktrace" > work. > Please find attached the log which I got. Please note the following: - at line 83 the message `Undefined command: "xbacktrace". Try "help".' occurs again because I typed RET a second time. - at line 89 `Are you sure you want to change it? (y or n) [answered Y; input not from terminal]' the answered was autnomously produced by EMACS which I am was using as a terminal --- because that makes it easier to save the log to a file and to recall past commands --- I don't know why EMACS used with `M-x shell' does not always behave well when you are asked interactive questions, but that is a completely different issue. - At line 109 I tried print w32_last-error() to see what happens, even though that is not the 2nd breakpoint (1st in w32heap.c) - At lines 111 & 112 I typed RET twice, and this is why you get the same error messages again `No symbol "w32_last" in current context.' > > Thanks. All thanks are to you for your kind support. Vincent. [-- Attachment #2: gdb_log.txt --] [-- Type: text/plain, Size: 3526 bytes --] c:\msys\1.0\temp>gdb C:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/bin/emacs.exe gdb C:/Programme/GNU/Emacs/bin/emacs.exe GNU gdb (GDB) 7.4 Copyright (C) 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Type "show copying" and "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "i686-pc-mingw32". For bug reporting instructions, please see: <http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>... Reading symbols from C:\Programme\GNU\Emacs\bin\emacs.exe...done. (gdb) break ralloc.c:352 Breakpoint 1 at 0x1172ef9: file ralloc.c, line 352. (gdb) break w32heap.c:194 Breakpoint 2 at 0x10a4035: file w32heap.c, line 194. (gdb) break w32heap.c:208 Breakpoint 3 at 0x10a407f: file w32heap.c, line 208. (gdb) run Starting program: C:\Programme\GNU\Emacs\bin\emacs.exe [New Thread 4520.0x11d0] [New Thread 4520.0x344] [New Thread 4520.0x14b8] Breakpoint 2, sbrk (increment=-892928) at w32heap.c:200 (gdb) 200 w32heap.c: No such file or directory. continue Continuing. Breakpoint 3, sbrk (increment=-892928) at w32heap.c:211 211 in w32heap.c (gdb) continue Continuing. Breakpoint 2, sbrk (increment=-77824) at w32heap.c:200 200 in w32heap.c (gdb) continue Continuing. Breakpoint 3, sbrk (increment=-77824) at w32heap.c:211 211 in w32heap.c (gdb) continue Continuing. Breakpoint 2, sbrk (increment=-77824) at w32heap.c:200 200 in w32heap.c (gdb) continue Continuing. Breakpoint 3, sbrk (increment=-77824) at w32heap.c:211 211 in w32heap.c (gdb) continue Continuing. Breakpoint 2, sbrk (increment=-53248) at w32heap.c:200 200 in w32heap.c (gdb) continue Continuing. Breakpoint 3, sbrk (increment=-53248) at w32heap.c:211 211 in w32heap.c (gdb) continue Continuing. [New Thread 4520.0xf18] Breakpoint 2, sbrk (increment=-782336) at w32heap.c:200 200 in w32heap.c (gdb) print last_heap->end $1 = (POINTER) 0x3ea2000 (gdb) print last_heap->bloc_start $2 = (POINTER) 0x3e8c000 (gdb) print excess (gdb) No symbol "excess" in current context. (gdb) No symbol "excess" in current context. print sbrk(0) $3 = (void *) 0x3f61000 (gdb) xbacktrace (gdb) Undefined command: "xbacktrace". Try "help". (gdb) Undefined command: "xbacktrace". Try "help". print xbacktrace (gdb) No symbol "xbacktrace" in current context. source c:/Programme/GNU/installation/emacs-install/trunk.old2/src/.gdbinit Warning: c:\msys\1.0\temp/../lwlib: No such file or directory. SIGINT is used by the debugger. Are you sure you want to change it? (y or n) [answered Y; input not from terminal] DISPLAY = TERM = emacs Breakpoint 4 at 0x1001d29: file emacs.c, line 292. Temporary breakpoint 5 at 0x10c76ca: file sysdep.c, line 790. (gdb) xbacktrace "kill-buffer" (0x82e2b8) "byte-code" (0x82e3b8) "load-with-code-conversion" (0x82e610) "org-mode" (0x82ebe8) "set-auto-mode-0" (0x82ed58) "byte-code" (0x82ee68) "set-auto-mode" (0x82f070) "normal-mode" (0x82f398) "after-find-file" (0x82f518) "find-file-noselect-1" (0x82f688) "find-file-noselect" (0x82f818) "find-file" (0x82f998) "dired-find-file" (0x82fb24) "call-interactively" (0x82fc54) (gdb) print w32_last-error() (gdb) No symbol "w32_last" in current context. (gdb) No symbol "w32_last" in current context. (gdb) No symbol "w32_last" in current context. quit A debugging session is active. Inferior 1 [process 4520] will be killed. Quit anyway? (y or n) [answered Y; input not from terminal] c:\msys\1.0\temp> Process shell<2> finished ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing 2012-11-04 19:50 ` bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Vincent Belaïche @ 2012-11-05 17:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-11-05 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Vincent Belaïche; +Cc: 12774 > From: Vincent Belaïche <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr> > Cc: 12774@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:50:10 +0100 > > (gdb) break ralloc.c:352 > Breakpoint 1 at 0x1172ef9: file ralloc.c, line 352. > (gdb) break w32heap.c:194 > Breakpoint 2 at 0x10a4035: file w32heap.c, line 194. > (gdb) break w32heap.c:208 > Breakpoint 3 at 0x10a407f: file w32heap.c, line 208. > (gdb) run > Starting program: C:\Programme\GNU\Emacs\bin\emacs.exe > [New Thread 4520.0x11d0] > [New Thread 4520.0x344] > [New Thread 4520.0x14b8] > > Breakpoint 2, sbrk (increment=-892928) at w32heap.c:200 > (gdb) 200 w32heap.c: No such file or directory. > continue > Continuing. > > Breakpoint 3, sbrk (increment=-892928) at w32heap.c:211 > 211 in w32heap.c > (gdb) continue > Continuing. As you see, it doesn't stop at the lines where you put the breakpoints, but on other lines. Don't know what that means; maybe compiler optimizations, maybe a mismatch between the sources and the binary. > (gdb) print excess > (gdb) No symbol "excess" in current context. Since you are not in ralloc.c, the variable "excess" indeed is not known. > (gdb) print w32_last-error() > (gdb) No symbol "w32_last" in current context. That was my bad: I meant w32_last_error(). Anyway, I think I know what to do to avoid these crashes. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing 2012-11-01 5:23 bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-04 19:50 ` bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Vincent Belaïche @ 2012-11-07 20:40 ` Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-07 21:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Vincent Belaïche @ 2012-11-07 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii, 12774 [...] > > It's certainly a bug: nothing Lisp does should ever crash Emacs. > > Anyway, I installed a change (revision 110784 on the emacs-24 branch) > that should fix this problem. If you can try with the old org.el, > please do so to verify that the crashes are gone. > > Thanks. Done, I have re-built emacs-24 (revision 110804) and I have tried 5 times in vain to reproduce the crash using the old org.el. It seems that the bug can be closed. Thank you very much for your kind help. Vincent. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing 2012-11-07 20:40 ` Vincent Belaïche @ 2012-11-07 21:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2012-11-07 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Vincent Belaïche; +Cc: 12774-done > From: Vincent Belaïche <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr> > Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 21:40:27 +0100 > > > It's certainly a bug: nothing Lisp does should ever crash Emacs. > > > > Anyway, I installed a change (revision 110784 on the emacs-24 branch) > > that should fix this problem. If you can try with the old org.el, > > please do so to verify that the crashes are gone. > > > > Thanks. > > Done, I have re-built emacs-24 (revision 110804) and I have tried 5 > times in vain to reproduce the crash using the old org.el. > > It seems that the bug can be closed. Thank you very much for your kind > help. Thanks, closing. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2012-11-07 21:14 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <80ehk9nm9p.fsf@gmail.com> 2012-11-05 17:29 ` bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Eli Zaretskii 2012-11-01 5:23 bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-04 19:50 ` bug#12774: 24.2.50; EMACS 24.2.50.1 crashing Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-05 17:14 ` Eli Zaretskii 2012-11-07 20:40 ` Vincent Belaïche 2012-11-07 21:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
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