From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:58:06 +0200 Message-ID: <83y54bak6p.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83vbzkcx20.fsf@gnu.org> <83d2lrczi7.fsf@gnu.org> <8338mmcsd9.fsf@gnu.org> <83txf1blf2.fsf@gnu.org> <87txf133yd.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <83r4a5bj5x.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwktdy6r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83iovhb0ez.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3fxdpmg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837gbwbcsx.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2lnevq7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385438280 24372 80.91.229.3 (26 Nov 2013 03:58:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 03:58:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ttn@gnuvola.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 26 04:58:05 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl9mn-0007PL-3V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:58:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56197 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl9mm-0005Lt-OP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:58:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45815) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl9mg-0005La-0d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:58:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl9mb-0006iR-4h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:57:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:43642) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vl9ma-0006iH-Si for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:57:53 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MWU00L00QUJL900@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:57:51 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MWU00LWRR0FDI90@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:57:51 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87d2lnevq7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.172 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165740 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Cc: ttn@gnuvola.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:35:12 +0900 > > For example, normally text properties are carried with the text if > cut/copied. That sucks for paragraph-level things. If it's a > document-level style, there's no need, it will be in effect at the > target point, too. If you're moving the text between documents, it's > reasonably likely you *don't* want that stuff at the target point. > N.B. This is the behavior of Excel that I hate most: it defaults to > carrying cell formatting with the contents when pasting -- I almost > *never* want that, and there's no way I know of to change the default > paste style in any *Office spreadsheet. > > Of course you can write code that discards those properties, but > really, that's not what you want. Some properties should never be > copied (and for the exceptions, it's not that burdensome to query and > reapply those properties). That should be an attribute of the > property itself, not the code that copies or moves text. We have yank-excluded-properties for that. > If you want a certain amount of WYSIWYG in a form that is very > compatible with traditional Emacs philosophy, I think that's very > do-able, with a reasonable amount of effort (none of which am I going > to supply, though, not even to port it to XEmacs -- I really don't > think it's worth it, better to teach people to AUCTeX and preview). > > But if you (FVO of you = "any of the folks who have participated in > this thread") want something that will attract new users to the Emacs > fold, that is going to be a *ton* of drudgery. On the level of > "friends don't let friends drink and drive." Trying to "make Emacs a > plausible alternative to *Office for non-Emacs users" is the kind of > self-destructive behavior I hope my friends will avoid. :-) I assume we want the former. At least that's what I had in mind. The latter is not a practical goal, I agree.