Emacs logo proposal

Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi,

I've been working recently on the "branding" of Emacs.  The final goal
is to improve the first experience newcomers have with Emacs, from the
website to the startup screen, and the image people have of Emacs.

As a first step, I'm working on dusting off our logo, improving the
current website, and designing a proper website for GNU ELPA.

You will find attached a proposal for a new iteration of the Emacs logo.
Here's a summary of what I did:

- flattened a bit the circle
- changed the gradient of the logo to warmer shades of purple
- changed the orientation if the E, to look more dynamic (looking up
  instead of down)
- added a dark stroke around the logo

Because it's important to see a logo in a context, I'm also attaching an
image (emacs-logo-context.png), which is a composition of:

- the current logo in GNOME
- the new logo in GNOME
- the new logo in OSX
- the new logo in Windows 10

as well as emacs-logo-gnome.png, which shows the new logo in the GNOME
task switcher.

I'm also attaching the current logo for reference, as well as a variant
of the new one with the original pen (which I do not like as much as
without it).

Cheers,
Nico


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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Jay Belanger]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> - changed the orientation if the E, to look more dynamic (looking up
>   instead of down)

I thought that part of the orientation was to make it look like an M as
well as an E.   With a different orientation, should it have a different
shape?

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Artur Malabarba]

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On 20 Oct 2015 8:45 pm, "Jay Belanger" <jay.p.belanger@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought that part of the orientation was to make it look like an M as
> well as an E.   With a different orientation, should it have a different
> shape?

Then I must say that intent went unnoticed by me all these years. :-|

I'd like a different shape, but either way Nicolas's current proposal is
already a worthy improvement to my eyes.

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Chris Van Dusen]

> On Oct 20, 2015, at 14:45, Jay Belanger <jay.p.belanger@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:
> 
>> - changed the orientation if the E, to look more dynamic (looking up
>>  instead of down)
> 
> I thought that part of the orientation was to make it look like an M as
> well as an E.   With a different orientation, should it have a different
> shape?
> 
> 

I thought that the "E" also served as the  stylized horns of the Gnu.  Regardless, the new logo looks nice. 

Chris.

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hi Nicholas,

On 10/20/2015 10:26 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:

> As a first step, I'm working on dusting off our logo, improving the
> current website, and designing a proper website for GNU ELPA.

That's a great news.

> You will find attached a proposal for a new iteration of the Emacs logo.

I like it, it's sharper and with better colors.

But it lost something too: as opposed to the old logo (and even the 
variant with the pen), the new one feels out of balance horizontally, 
weighing more to the left. Maybe move it right a little?

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Kaushal Modi]

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> I'd like a different shape, but either way Nicolas's current proposal is
already a worthy improvement to my eyes.
+1

In any case, the new logo without the pen looks nice.


--
Kaushal Modi

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Chris Van Dusen <cavandusen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> > On Oct 20, 2015, at 14:45, Jay Belanger <jay.p.belanger@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:
> >
> >> - changed the orientation if the E, to look more dynamic (looking up
> >>  instead of down)
> >
> > I thought that part of the orientation was to make it look like an M as
> > well as an E.   With a different orientation, should it have a different
> > shape?
> >
> >
>
> I thought that the "E" also served as the  stylized horns of the Gnu.
> Regardless, the new logo looks nice.
>
> Chris.
>

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RE: Emacs logo proposal

[Drew Adams]

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> You will find attached a proposal for a new iteration of the Emacs logo.
> Here's a summary of what I did:
> 
> - flattened a bit the circle
> - changed the gradient of the logo to warmer shades of purple
> - changed the orientation if the E, to look more dynamic (looking up
>   instead of down)
> - added a dark stroke around the logo

Looks good to me.  I agree with you about the E orientation,
especially when the icon is reduced considerably (see attached).
(No need to move the E to the right, IMO.)

Maybe provide it in a variety of colors.  Maybe even some with a
transparent E (see attached).

(At least on MS Windows, users can easily choose among the icons
distributed with an app.)

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[David Kastrup]

Jay Belanger <jay.p.belanger@gmail.com> writes:

> Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:
>
>> - changed the orientation if the E, to look more dynamic (looking up
>>   instead of down)
>
> I thought that part of the orientation was to make it look like an M as
> well as an E.

Gnu horns.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Rasmus]

Hi,

Thanks for putting effort into this!  I like the current logo better,
though there may be little need of the pen. I prefer the shape of the E in
the current iteration over your proposal.

Thanks,
Rasmus

-- 
Slowly unravels in a ball of yarn and the devil collects it

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> writes:

> On 20 Oct 2015 8:45 pm, "Jay Belanger" <jay.p.belanger@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I thought that part of the orientation was to make it look like an M as
>> well as an E.   With a different orientation, should it have a different
>> shape?
>
> Then I must say that intent went unnoticed by me all these years. :-|
>
> I'd like a different shape, but either way Nicolas's current proposal is
> already a worthy improvement to my eyes.

Hi Artur,

I'm glad you like the logo.

I explicitly want to keep the original shape to make sure the logo stays
recognizable.  For the same reason I didn' touch the shape of the E, I
just oriented it differently.

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Hi Nicholas,

Hi Dmitry,

> I like it, it's sharper and with better colors.

Great!

> But it lost something too: as opposed to the old logo (and even the 
> variant with the pen), the new one feels out of balance horizontally, 
> weighing more to the left. Maybe move it right a little?

I can try that, but while I understand what you mean, I don't get the
same feeling.  I will try to move it slightly to the right anyway.

Nico

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RE: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> Maybe provide it in a variety of colors.  Maybe even some with a
> transparent E (see attached).
>

I can provide it with a transparent E, not so sure about alternate
colors, though, as I think that a logo should always be displayed
unchanged to keep the branding consistent.

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Aurélien Aptel]

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> I've been working recently on the "branding" of Emacs.  The final goal
> is to improve the first experience newcomers have with Emacs, from the
> website to the startup screen, and the image people have of Emacs.


Good job! I like the new logo and I'm eager to see what you have
planned for the website!

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Dani Moncayo]

FWIW: I'd also prefer the new logo proposed by Nicolas, and I'd drop
the logo with the pen.


-- 
Dani Moncayo

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Thank you all for your positive feedback!

I will install it in master shortly.
Drew, I will also make an alternative version with a transparent E.

Cheers,
Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[John Yates]

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Count me in  the minority.  I find the color and gradient less than an
improvement.

Recent style movement is towards much flatter icons (e.g. Android Material
Design).  You can see this already in your attached clip from OSX.  (Focus
on icon from the distribution, not third party icons which likely are
lagging re conforming to the style guidelines or may have no intention of
doing so.)

My druthers would be a hue closer to the old purple but devoid of
gradient.  Then I would like to see the icon with and without the
surrounding ring.  (My suspicion is that abandoning the ring will enhance a
flat look.)  And obviously the pen gets jettisoned.

/john



On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been working recently on the "branding" of Emacs.  The final goal
> is to improve the first experience newcomers have with Emacs, from the
> website to the startup screen, and the image people have of Emacs.
>
> As a first step, I'm working on dusting off our logo, improving the
> current website, and designing a proper website for GNU ELPA.
>
> You will find attached a proposal for a new iteration of the Emacs logo.
> Here's a summary of what I did:
>
> - flattened a bit the circle
> - changed the gradient of the logo to warmer shades of purple
> - changed the orientation if the E, to look more dynamic (looking up
>   instead of down)
> - added a dark stroke around the logo
>
> Because it's important to see a logo in a context, I'm also attaching an
> image (emacs-logo-context.png), which is a composition of:
>
> - the current logo in GNOME
> - the new logo in GNOME
> - the new logo in OSX
> - the new logo in Windows 10
>
> as well as emacs-logo-gnome.png, which shows the new logo in the GNOME
> task switcher.
>
> I'm also attaching the current logo for reference, as well as a variant
> of the new one with the original pen (which I do not like as much as
> without it).
>
> Cheers,
> Nico
>
>

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Aurélien Aptel]

Someone on reddit posted another proposition (I don't know where it's from tho).

https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/3pr7to/emacsdevel_emacs_logo_proposal_website_redesign/
http://cdn.websharks-inc.com/jaswsinc/uploads/2014/09/512x512.png

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Juanma Barranquero]

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On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:45 PM, John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> wrote:
>
> Count me in  the minority.  I find the color and gradient less than an
improvement.

I'm unconvinced, too.

> Recent style movement is towards much flatter icons (e.g. Android
Material Design).

In all fairness, Microsoft pioneered that with the Metro interface for
Windows 7 Phone. etc.

> My druthers would be a hue closer to the old purple but devoid of
gradient.  Then I would
> like to see the icon with and without the surrounding ring.

+1

> And obviously the pen gets jettisoned.

Seems like something we all can agree on ;-)

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Aurélien Aptel <aurelien.aptel+emacs@gmail.com> writes:

> Someone on reddit posted another proposition (I don't know where it's
> from tho).

Hi Aurélien,

Thanks for the links.  It's an interesting approach, and apart from
matters of taste and style, I decided to stick to a purple circle with
the original E letter because I want new the logo to be immediately
recognizable as being Emacs, that was very important to me. I don't want
the current brand of Emacs to be lost.

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Kaushal Modi]

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I agree with the proposal to lose gradient and go with flat design.

Probably,
- Retain original logo
- Flat colors, no gradient
- No outer ring
- No pen

??

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Daniel Pimentel]

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Hi GNUs,

in attach my propossal.

Description: Emacs logo with lambda symbol inverted as a letter "E" of 
Emacs.

Developed by Inkscape.
License: GPLv3 or CC-4.

-- 
Daniel Pimentel (d4n1 3:)

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[David Kastrup]

Daniel Pimentel <d4n1@openmailbox.org> writes:

> Hi GNUs,
>
> in attach my propossal.
>
> Description: Emacs logo with lambda symbol inverted as a letter "E" of
> Emacs.

Cute idea, does not work graphically.  Given the actual shape of the
letter λ I don't think it can reasonably be made to work where a
reasonably convincing lambda as well as E can be discerned.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Daniel Pimentel]

Ok, I'll try again :)

Thanks for your good comments,

-- 
Daniel Pimentel (d4n1 3:)

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Daniel Pimentel]

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I created a new proposal for Emacs logo (attached).

The logo is based on "pencil" forming an "E" of Emacs.

What do you thing about it?

-- 
Daniel Pimentel (d4n1 3:)

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

Beautiful!  I like the new logo and I'll do what I can do to help you
improve the websites for Emacs and GNU ELPA.[1]

PS - If you are interested, apart from the ones posted above, here are
some other Emacs logos I see:

* https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cg433n/emacs-yosemite-icon/master/emacs.iconset/icon_512x512@2x.png
* https://github.com/emacsfodder/emacs-icons-project

[1] You can have a look at The GNU/FSF Web Site Guidelines
(https://www.gnu.org/server/fsf-html-style-sheet.en.html), if you
haven't been aware of it already.

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> Beautiful!  I like the new logo and I'll do what I can do to help you
> improve the websites for Emacs and GNU ELPA.[1]

Thanks.  I alreadu started with GNU ELPA.  Once the basics of the design
will be in place, I'll show it here on emacs-devel, and we then can work
on it together.  Does that sound like a plan?

> PS - If you are interested, apart from the ones posted above, here are
> some other Emacs logos I see:
>

> [1] You can have a look at The GNU/FSF Web Site Guidelines
> (https://www.gnu.org/server/fsf-html-style-sheet.en.html), if you
> haven't been aware of it already.

I wasn't, thank you for the link.

Nico

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(ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi,

I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/

It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
heading.

The content is 99% the same as on http://elpa.gnu.org, it's only
graphical changes at this point.

Cheers,
Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[David Caldwell]

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On 10/22/15 5:30 AM, Aurélien Aptel wrote:
> Someone on reddit posted another proposition (I don't know where it's from tho).

FWIW, someone sent me a slightly tweaked Emacs Icon designed to fit in
with the stock Yosemite (Mac OS X 10.10) icons:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cg433n/emacs-yosemite-icon/master/icon_1024x1024.png

Attached is how it looks in the dock next to some stock Mac OS X icons.

-David


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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[John Yates]

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I am surprised at the large swash of burgundy.  Not that it is unattractive
but out of consistency I would have expected Emacs purple.

/john

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>
> It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
> heading.
>
> The content is 99% the same as on http://elpa.gnu.org, it's only
> graphical changes at this point.
>
> Cheers,
> Nico
>

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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Kelvin White]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 2:20 PM, John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> wrote:
> I am surprised at the large swash of burgundy.  Not that it is unattractive
> but out of consistency I would have expected Emacs purple.
>
> /john
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>>
>> It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
>> heading.
>>
>> The content is 99% the same as on http://elpa.gnu.org, it's only
>> graphical changes at this point.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nico
>
>

I'm wondering why most emacs guides, tutorials, how-tos etc. refer to the
'~/.emacs' file instead of '~/.emacs.d/init.el'. Is this a Windows thing?

RE: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Drew Adams]

> I'm wondering why most emacs guides, tutorials, how-tos etc. refer to the
> '~/.emacs' file instead of '~/.emacs.d/init.el'. Is this a Windows thing?

They should refer to *neither*.  They should refer to the user's
"init file", and they should reference (emacs) `Init File' ("The
Emacs Initialization File").

http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Init-File.html

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Rasmus]

Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>
> It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
> heading.
>
> The content is 99% the same as on http://elpa.gnu.org, it's only
> graphical changes at this point.

Looks very nice.  "Browse packages" doesn't work in my browser.  Might be
intentional.

Thanks,
Rasmus

-- 
Slowly unravels in a ball of yarn and the devil collects it

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

Hi Nicolas,

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

> Thanks.  I alreadu started with GNU ELPA.  Once the basics of the design
> will be in place, I'll show it here on emacs-devel, and we then can work
> on it together.  Does that sound like a plan?

Yes, and I'm looking forward to it!  Here are my suggestions:

* Add a Building and Deploying section in admin/notes/www, containing
  workflow instructions for the websites of Emacs and GNU ELPA, so other
  people can contribute easily.[1][2]

* If needed, I can help set up a staging site (so the web repo can have
  a master branch and a release branch).

* In The Future(TM), maybe setting up some sort of automated testing
  for the websites can help validate the code works as expected.

I have some basic HTML/CSS/JavaScript skills.  Maybe I can help with the
code.

BTW, do you plan to use the GNU boilerplate[3] for the new websites
(Emacs and GNU ELPA)?  Many (if not most) GNU projects use it, but IIRC
there are also GNU projects not using it (e.g., Hurd, Guix, glibc,
GnuPG, GRUB, MediaGoblin, Octave, FreeIPMI, GNUstep, GNOME and GTK+).

Footnotes:

[1] I still don't know where the "real" GNU ELPA website is located.  I
made some changes in elpa.git/html/ in 2013, but those changes were/are
not deployed to elpa.gnu.org.  (I have a fencepost.gnu.org account, but I
haven't checked there yet.)

[2] It helps a lot for someone not familiar with CVS like me (the Emacs
website source code is in cvs.savannah.gnu.org:/web/emacs).

[3] https://www.gnu.org/server/standards/boilerplate.html

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

Hi Nicolas,

[Sorry, I didn't see this post when I wrote my last reply.]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:50 AM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/

In general, it looks good.  I like the Fira Sans font, the "Browse the
packages" button, the linear-gradient header, and the DTD-less DOCTYPE :-)

Although (like John) I would have expected Emacs purple instead of
burgundy.  The current header color looks strange to me.

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Yuri Khan]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/

I’d like to voice my concern with this fragment of CSS:

=== layout.css#line=97,102
.container {
  padding: 80px;
  width: 960px;
  margin: 0 auto;
}
===

This causes the width of the page to be at least 80+960+80 = 1020
pixels, leading to horizontal scrolling on narrower displays.

An important case of a narrow display occurs when two windows are
tiled side-by-side on a typical 24″ 1920×1080 or 1920×1200 desktop
monitor. (This size and resolution is when it becomes really
inconvenient to keep the browser maximized to the whole screen, as
lines become too wide to read.)

Consider also mobile users, whose typical screen width is likely to be
just about 2.5″, or 240 CSS pixels if taken at face value.

> It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
> heading.

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Matthew Carter]

Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
>
>> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>
> I’d like to voice my concern with this fragment of CSS:
>
> === layout.css#line=97,102
> .container {
>   padding: 80px;
>   width: 960px;
>   margin: 0 auto;
> }
> ===
>
> This causes the width of the page to be at least 80+960+80 = 1020
> pixels, leading to horizontal scrolling on narrower displays.
>
> An important case of a narrow display occurs when two windows are
> tiled side-by-side on a typical 24″ 1920×1080 or 1920×1200 desktop
> monitor. (This size and resolution is when it becomes really
> inconvenient to keep the browser maximized to the whole screen, as
> lines become too wide to read.)
>
> Consider also mobile users, whose typical screen width is likely to be
> just about 2.5″, or 240 CSS pixels if taken at face value.
>
>> It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
>> heading.
>

Agreed - in marketing terms, the design definitely needs to be
"responsive".

I have a MELPA related site I had put together here:

http://slugelisp.ahungry.com/

Which auto-formats the layout based on screen width (using twitter's
bootstrap library - a set of js/css designed for various layouts).

The purple/pink color scheme looks great though!

-- 
Matthew Carter (m@ahungry.com)
http://ahungry.com

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I liked the old overflowing kitchen sink logo.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> I liked the old overflowing kitchen sink logo.

Hi Richard,

Could you point me to it?

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Nicolas,

Hi Xue,

> BTW, do you plan to use the GNU boilerplate[3] for the new websites
> (Emacs and GNU ELPA)?

Well, no. I might cherry pick some things from it, but that would be it.


> [1] I still don't know where the "real" GNU ELPA website is located.
> I made some changes in elpa.git/html/ in 2013, but those changes
> were/are not deployed to elpa.gnu.org.

Oh, really? I really thought it was there.  Then I have no clue either.
Does anyone knows?

Nico

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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> writes:

> I am surprised at the large swash of burgundy.  Not that it is unattractive
> but out of consistency I would have expected Emacs purple.

I'm keeping the Emacs purple (well, a gradiant with the Emacs purple in
it) for the Emacs website.  You will find attached a PNG image I worked on
that lead me to the current website.

Cheers,
Nico


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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

>> The content is 99% the same as on http://elpa.gnu.org, it's only
>> graphical changes at this point.
>
> Looks very nice.  "Browse packages" doesn't work in my browser.  Might be
> intentional.

Yeah, this is early work.  At that point I only bothered with the index
page.

Nico

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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 11:50 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
>
>> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>
> I’d like to voice my concern with this fragment of CSS:
>
> === layout.css#line=97,102
> .container {
>   padding: 80px;
>   width: 960px;
>   margin: 0 auto;
> }
> ===

Hi Yuri,

As I said, this early work, please do not worry too much about CSS
details just yet :)

About this specific issue, be sure that I would not work on a website
and not make it responsive.

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[David Kastrup]

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Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> I liked the old overflowing kitchen sink logo.
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Could you point me to it?


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-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Artur Malabarba]

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On 23 Oct 2015 9:02 am, "Nicolas Petton" <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
>
> Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:
> > [1] I still don't know where the "real" GNU ELPA website is located.
> > I made some changes in elpa.git/html/ in 2013, but those changes
> > were/are not deployed to elpa.gnu.org.
>
> Oh, really? I really thought it was there.  Then I have no clue either.
> Does anyone knows?

Last time I wanted to change it, Stefan (CC.ed) applied the change. So I'm
guessing he knows.

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

BTW, I have another minor suggestion: add sentences like "To contact the
GNU ELPA admins, send email to emacs-devel@gnu.org.  To report a bug,
send email to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org.  You can browse our bug database at
debbugs.gnu.org." so people know where to contact when they have a
problem.

Maybe we should file a meta bug[1] for the new website, in order to
avoid suggestions being forgotten.

[1] Similar to this Mozilla bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1088449

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> BTW, I have another minor suggestion: add sentences like "To contact the
> GNU ELPA admins, send email to emacs-devel@gnu.org.  To report a bug,
> send email to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org.  You can browse our bug database at
> debbugs.gnu.org." so people know where to contact when they have a
> problem.

Thanks for the suggestion.  For now I haven't made any changes to the
content itself though, but I will.

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hi Nicolas,

On 10/21/2015 11:06 AM, Nicolas Petton wrote:
>> variant with the pen), the new one feels out of balance horizontally,
>> weighing more to the left. Maybe move it right a little?
>
> I can try that, but while I understand what you mean, I don't get the
> same feeling.  I will try to move it slightly to the right anyway.

Any news on that front? My feeling hasn't gone away, unfortunately.

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Hi Nicolas,

Hi Dmitry,

> Any news on that front? My feeling hasn't gone away, unfortunately.

That's unfortunate, indeed. ;-)

What about the attached PNG file?  I can't really move it more to the
right than that.

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 10/23/2015 06:59 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:

> What about the attached PNG file?  I can't really move it more to the
> right than that.

It's better. Maybe move it a tiny bit to the left now? :)

The sweet spot should be somewhere between the two versions.

By the way, I think the "old" icon files should be called emacs24, not 
emacs23.

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> It's better. Maybe move it a tiny bit to the left now? :)

Haha.  Ok, here you go.  This one is the best IMO.

> By the way, I think the "old" icon files should be called emacs24, not 
> emacs23.

Do you think?  They were apparently made for Emacs 23.

Nico


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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 10/23/2015 07:14 PM, Nicolas Petton wrote:

> Haha.  Ok, here you go.  This one is the best IMO.

Agreed, looks good.

>> By the way, I think the "old" icon files should be called emacs24, not
>> emacs23.
>
> Do you think?  They were apparently made for Emacs 23.

I'd name them after the last version they'd appeared in. But if everyone 
else is okay with the current filename, don't mind me.

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:

Here's a first version of the packages page:
http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/packages/

Cheers,
Nico

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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr>
> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 19:05:53 +0200
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> Here's a first version of the packages page:
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/packages/

LGTM, thanks.

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Aurélien Aptel]

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/

Again, good job Nicolas! It's a big improvement as far as I'm concerned.

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Kelvin White]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Aurélien Aptel
<aurelien.aptel+emacs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
> > http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>
> Again, good job Nicolas! It's a big improvement as far as I'm concerned.
>
>

+1

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Stephen Berman]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:50:55 +0200 Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>
> It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
> heading.

On my system the banner header displays correctly on Firefox, Chrome and
Chromium, but on Konqueror and QupZilla the line at the banner's bottom
is shown, but the space above it is white and only the "GNU Emacs" link
is visible, the rest of the text ("GNU Emacs Lisp Package Archive\nThe
default package repository for") and the Elpa image are not displayed;
and on emacs-w3m and eww the text and link of the header are displayed,
but above it there's only an empty box.

Steve Berman

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> writes:

> On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:50:55 +0200 Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just put a first draft of my work on the GNU ELPA online at
>> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
>>
>> It's of course rather unfinished, but gives a taste of where I'm
>> heading.
>
> On my system the banner header displays correctly on Firefox, Chrome and
> Chromium, but on Konqueror and QupZilla the line at the banner's bottom
> is shown, but the space above it is white and only the "GNU Emacs" link
> is visible, the rest of the text ("GNU Emacs Lisp Package Archive\nThe
> default package repository for") and the Elpa image are not displayed;
> and on emacs-w3m and eww the text and link of the header are displayed,
> but above it there's only an empty box.

That's because I only used a gradiant for now as the background, with no
vendor prefix.

I will of course fix that.

Nico

>
> Steve Berman

-- 
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> writes:
>
> Here's a first version of the packages page:
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/packages/

Cool!  The table search filter is pretty convenient.

Minor nitpick:

* A favicon is needed, preferably with a transparent background
* The DOCTYPE should be the same as http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
* It would be better to use CSS instead of `border' and `cellpadding'
  for the table element

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

> Minor nitpick:
>
> * A favicon is needed, preferably with a transparent background
> * The DOCTYPE should be the same as http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
> * It would be better to use CSS instead of `border' and `cellpadding'
>   for the table element

Indeed, the html page is still basically the current one, I haven't really
changed it yet.


-- 
Nicolas Petton
http://nicolas-petton.fr

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Stefan Monnier]

>> > [1] I still don't know where the "real" GNU ELPA website is located.
>> > I made some changes in elpa.git/html/ in 2013, but those changes
>> > were/are not deployed to elpa.gnu.org.
>> Oh, really? I really thought it was there.  Then I have no clue either.
>> Does anyone knows?
> Last time I wanted to change it, Stefan (CC.ed) applied the change. So I'm
> guessing he knows.

It's in elpa.gnu.org:/var/www


        Stefan

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

> It's in elpa.gnu.org:/var/www

Hi Stefan,

Is it ssh, ftp?  And do you know how I could get write access to it?

Nico

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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Stefan Monnier]

>> It's in elpa.gnu.org:/var/www
> Hi Stefan,
> Is it ssh, ftp?

elpa.gnu.org is a virtual host accessible via SSH.

> And do you know how I could get write access to it?

You have to request access to it at sysadmin@gnu.org, IIRC.
And currently it's setup in a very naive way, where you basically need
root access (via sudo) to do anything, so I don't like to give access
to people too easily.

OTOH an "official admin" would be *very* welcome.

Also it'd be good to setup a cron job that does something like copying
the web-site files from elpa.git/html to /var/www.  Yet at the same time,
we have to be careful since lots and lots of people have write access to
elpa.git, and we don't want this to give them indirectly access to
elpa.gnu.org.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

Hi Stefan,

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:56 AM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> You have to request access to it at sysadmin@gnu.org, IIRC.
> And currently it's setup in a very naive way, where you basically need
> root access (via sudo) to do anything, so I don't like to give access
> to people too easily.
>
> OTOH an "official admin" would be *very* welcome.

What are responsibilities and qualifications of the official admin?

> Also it'd be good to setup a cron job that does something like copying
> the web-site files from elpa.git/html to /var/www.  Yet at the same time,
> we have to be careful since lots and lots of people have write access to
> elpa.git, and we don't want this to give them indirectly access to
> elpa.gnu.org.

Agreed.  That's why I suggested that we set up a set up a
"staging/development site".  The changes to elpa.git/html will only be
deployed to the staging/development site regularly, and if we decided to
release a new version of elpa.gnu.org website, then the official admin
deploys it to /var/www.  Just like a master branch and a release branch.

I don't know how to set up a staging site under gnu.org, but (if you
agree) I can help set up one on GitHub or on my own server.

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:

>> OTOH an "official admin" would be *very* welcome.
>
> What are responsibilities and qualifications of the official admin?

If it's not too much of a burden, I could take that responsibility.

Nico

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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Nicolas Petton]

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Hi,

I made both the homepage and the packages page responsive:

http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/packages/

Cheers,
Nico

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Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Nicolas Petton <nicolas@petton.fr> wrote:
> Hi,

Hi Nicolas,

> I made both the homepage and the packages page responsive:
>
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/
> http://nicolas-petton.fr/ressources/elpa/packages/

Thank you for solving the favicon/DOCTYPE/table-attribute issues!

And yes, with the new viewport meta tags and CSS media queries, these
pages look better on mobile devices!

BTW, since the 'tt' element is obsolete, would you please replace
<tt>M-x list-packages</tt> with something else (such as <code>, or
<span> with 'font-family:monospace')?  And don't forget to remove the
corresponding rules in layout.css.  Thank you very much.

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Yuri Khan]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 5:49 AM, Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> wrote:

> BTW, since the 'tt' element is obsolete, would you please replace
> <tt>M-x list-packages</tt> with something else (such as <code>, or
> <span> with 'font-family:monospace')?

“M-x list-packages” is arguably user input, so <kbd> is appropriate.

Re: (ELPA website design) Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Xue Fuqiao]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 5:49 AM, Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> BTW, since the 'tt' element is obsolete, would you please replace
>> <tt>M-x list-packages</tt> with something else (such as <code>, or
>> <span> with 'font-family:monospace')?
>
> “M-x list-packages” is arguably user input, so <kbd> is appropriate.

Yes, you're right.  In fact, I made a change exactly the same as your
advice above in 2013.

See: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/commit/html/index.html?id=f6799b0eebed5a81f3b68c02bb329d76abf091fa

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Mark Oteiza]

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After coming across some posts about the new logo (and now seeing it),
I'm jumping in.

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
>> You will find attached a proposal for a new iteration of the Emacs logo.
>
> I like it, it's sharper and with better colors.
>
> But it lost something too: as opposed to the old logo (and even the
> variant with the pen), the new one feels out of balance horizontally,
> weighing more to the left. Maybe move it right a little?

This echoes my first impression.

The change in orientation and position of the E appears gratuitous to
me. Because the orientation has changed, it's impossible for the logo to
look balanced without shoving the E too far to the right.

Just pasting the old E onto the new logo, I get something that is much
less jarring.

I think just changing the background and removing the pen is enough of a
change. As another example: some time ago the "drop shadow" was removed
from the splash. Although a rather small change, I think it made the
splash look much cleaner. You don't have to change everything to update
a look.


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Re: Emacs logo proposal

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 11/14/2015 08:28 PM, Mark Oteiza wrote:

> The change in orientation and position of the E appears gratuitous to
> me. Because the orientation has changed, it's impossible for the logo to
> look balanced without shoving the E too far to the right.

Like discussed later, the current icon in the Emacs repo is balanced 
enough horizontally, IMHO. And your attachment does feel weighing a bit 
to the right (which may well have been the case in the original).

Even so, the slanted version looks decent, and, depending on the mood, I 
might prefer it.

Should we have a user poll sometime before the release?

Re: Emacs logo proposal

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Even so, the slanted version looks decent, and, depending on the mood, I
> might prefer it.

> Should we have a user poll sometime before the release?

I think so.  How about asking help-gnu-emacs? Or Reddit?

John