From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Add a configure option for NATIVE_FULL_AOT? Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:13:08 +0300 Message-ID: <83y2905717.fsf@gnu.org> References: Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9557"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Gillespie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 17 19:14:08 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mG2fA-0002GM-Hg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:14:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38880 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mG2f8-0007TO-P9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:14:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40804) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mG2eI-0006mQ-AB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:13:14 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38396) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mG2eI-0005Zx-4b; Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:13:14 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2990 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mG2eH-0002Ao-J8; Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:13:13 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Tom Gillespie on Tue, 17 Aug 2021 09:03:45 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272504 Archived-At: > From: Tom Gillespie > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 09:03:45 -0700 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii > > > My fear is that this change of concept will delay the release of Emacs > > 28, because we are moving the carpet under our feet too close to > > cutting the release branch, and will most probably bump into problems > > we didn't see until now. > > I don't think that there is any change of concept here. Maybe for you and some others, but it doesn't mean there isn't a conceptual shift. I've been following the development of the native-compilation feature for many months, during which we bumped into and resolved quite a few problems with it, and I can tell you that some solutions explicitly assumed JIT compilation as the main paradigm, otherwise they would have made little sense. I just mentioned some of them up-thread. > This was one of the original ways to build the eln files and I have > been using it for over a year. I'm not talking about you or anyone else personally. The issues we found depend on many different installation/usage habits and patterns, and typically rear their heads only on some system configurations. It is not a coincidence it took us several months to have all the issues reported, analyzed, and resolved. Some of the solutions required several iterations of non-trivial changes to code parts that are quite sensitive, because Emacs runs them early during startup, where not everything is yet set up. > I understand the concern, but wouldn't it be better to get the functionality > out so that we can get more eyeballs/systems using it to see if there are > any issues? I'm not against letting this out, I'm just saying that it will probably delay the release of Emacs 28, which is a pity. > > Also, please note that the *.eln files are stored without keeping the > > subdirectory structure below lisp/, they are all lumped in the same > > directory, unlike the *.elc files. I guess next we will be asked to > > preserve the tree structure... > > We had this conversation almost exactly a year ago as well. > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-08/msg01036.html > The eln files are architecture specific and should not be stored along > with the elc files I didn't say *.eln should be near the *.elc, I said that they maybe should have the same directory hierarchy as the *.el files, just under a different root. > Quite a bit of though and testing have gone in to make sure that > system wide full AOT compilation works and is distro and packaging > friendly. I didn't invest any thought in it, FWIW. For me, it was always a "you are on your own" option. I didn't even try it, as all of the efforts went into making the JIT compilation working well and reliably.