From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 22:29:24 +0300 Message-ID: <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34870"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: psainty@orcon.net.nz, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 28 21:30:55 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVIoY-0008nW-7E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 21:30:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44788 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVIoW-0002DA-Kr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:30:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44870) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVInG-00018m-1h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:29:34 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56504) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVInF-0008AG-Q2; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:29:33 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4335 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVInD-0005pY-D4; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:29:33 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Tue, 28 Sep 2021 19:05:50 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275734 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 19:05:50 +0000 > Cc: psainty@orcon.net.nz, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > The shorthands don't disrupt anything unless they are used. And using > > them is completely opt-in, and intended for specific situations where > > it is justified. > > I haven't opted in. How do I opt out of somebody else's use of these? What use? No one used it yet in the Emacs sources. > > I'm not aware of any plans to use shorthands in Emacs itself. People > > talk and discuss these possibilities, and that's okay. But that's > > just talk at this point, certainly for Emacs 28. > > Even if it's just talk, how will we know that it's just talk? And how > long will it stay just talk? Clearly there's intent to use this, > otherwise nobody would have bothered implementing it. No, the intent is different. And we will know because enough eyes watch the commits that go in. > OK, how do you suggest I find all occurrences of jit-lock-functions in > the Emacs Lisp sources after shorthands start being used? The same as today. With the same probability of success. Grep cannot guarantee 100% success, because it cannot catch symbols that are generated at run time, and we already have such features in place. E.g., search the Emacs tree for "(intern (format ", and you will see how many of those are already here. So please calm down, your emotions are misplaced. There's no catastrophe, certainly not as long as shorthands aren't used inside Emacs.