From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: psainty@orcon.net.nz, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 22:29:24 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YVNnjl9OTy3xCxGI@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Tue, 28 Sep 2021 19:05:50 +0000)
> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 19:05:50 +0000
> Cc: psainty@orcon.net.nz, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
>
> > The shorthands don't disrupt anything unless they are used. And using
> > them is completely opt-in, and intended for specific situations where
> > it is justified.
>
> I haven't opted in. How do I opt out of somebody else's use of these?
What use? No one used it yet in the Emacs sources.
> > I'm not aware of any plans to use shorthands in Emacs itself. People
> > talk and discuss these possibilities, and that's okay. But that's
> > just talk at this point, certainly for Emacs 28.
>
> Even if it's just talk, how will we know that it's just talk? And how
> long will it stay just talk? Clearly there's intent to use this,
> otherwise nobody would have bothered implementing it.
No, the intent is different. And we will know because enough eyes
watch the commits that go in.
> OK, how do you suggest I find all occurrences of jit-lock-functions in
> the Emacs Lisp sources after shorthands start being used?
The same as today. With the same probability of success. Grep cannot
guarantee 100% success, because it cannot catch symbols that are
generated at run time, and we already have such features in place.
E.g., search the Emacs tree for "(intern (format ", and you will see
how many of those are already here.
So please calm down, your emotions are misplaced. There's no
catastrophe, certainly not as long as shorthands aren't used inside
Emacs.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-09-28 19:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 371+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-09-28 0:38 Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Phil Sainty
2021-09-28 5:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-28 7:26 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30 8:20 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 10:31 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 10:54 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:18 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 11:40 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 16:58 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 20:25 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 3:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-30 11:30 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 17:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:46 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:41 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:00 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:26 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:26 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 14:57 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 15:50 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 16:02 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 17:58 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 23:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 15:29 ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 13:18 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 13:31 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 16:23 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-09-30 17:19 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 1:20 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:10 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:22 ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-09-30 23:23 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 23:38 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 1:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-01 7:02 ` tomas
2021-10-01 13:15 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 13:53 ` tomas
2021-10-01 14:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 14:40 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 15:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 16:05 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:11 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-02 1:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 1:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 2:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-04 15:57 ` André A. Gomes
2021-10-02 1:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 1:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 1:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 2:05 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 2:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 8:39 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02 8:36 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02 12:16 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 23:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-03 21:17 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-07 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18 21:13 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 21:22 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-20 6:45 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20 8:00 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-23 23:26 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:03 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 8:50 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:29 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:57 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 12:44 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:50 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 15:01 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 15:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-02 15:33 ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 19:42 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 19:59 ` But then what are namespaces ? Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 20:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 21:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 21:09 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 21:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 22:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 22:49 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 23:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-03 21:47 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:00 ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 20:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-03 1:15 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-02 15:25 ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-10-02 16:08 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 22:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:10 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 9:03 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:25 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:04 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 12:34 ` Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28 6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 7:41 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 8:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 8:07 ` Helmut Eller
2021-10-02 1:06 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 15:28 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 17:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 18:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:05 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-09-30 12:23 ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-30 12:28 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:29 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:44 ` Joost Kremers
2021-09-30 13:18 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-01 0:11 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-30 12:52 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 12:55 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:49 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 0:21 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 14:27 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 22:50 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01 0:44 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-01 7:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01 7:24 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 10:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 6:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 12:24 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01 13:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 0:28 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 6:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 7:44 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 8:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 9:20 ` bug#50959: 28.0.50; Shorthand symbols are unknown to Emacs Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 10:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 11:02 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 11:14 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:54 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 12:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 14:02 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 14:43 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 15:22 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 15:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 17:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 17:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 18:03 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 18:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 0:14 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 0:14 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 0:14 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 11:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-06 10:45 ` bug#50959: [PATCH] " João Távora
2021-10-06 12:19 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2021-10-06 12:34 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:50 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2021-10-06 12:53 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 19:59 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2021-10-06 20:19 ` João Távora
2021-10-10 10:46 ` João Távora
2021-10-10 11:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-10 13:39 ` João Távora
2021-10-10 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 0:14 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-02 11:53 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 12:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 12:37 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 14:17 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 10:52 ` Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) João Távora
2021-10-04 0:12 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 0:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 13:09 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 15:44 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 16:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 17:43 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 18:34 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 19:15 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 19:30 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 13:12 ` João Távora
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 21:20 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 22:07 ` João Távora
2021-10-05 22:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 11:28 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:21 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 12:30 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 13:16 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 16:23 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 20:00 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 21:10 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 21:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-10 21:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-07 22:21 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07 22:24 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 6:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-10 21:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-10 21:18 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 14:16 ` João Távora
2021-10-08 15:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 17:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 18:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 23:43 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:38 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:41 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:52 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:52 ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 1:38 ` T.V Raman
2021-09-28 19:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 18:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 19:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:31 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 22:10 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30 23:59 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28 7:21 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:49 ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-28 13:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 14:04 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:01 ` Adam Porter
2021-09-28 15:20 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:23 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:15 ` João Távora
2021-09-30 6:06 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 5:57 ` Elisp LSP Server Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-05 6:38 ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 9:50 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 11:27 ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 11:46 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:22 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 21:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-07 22:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07 0:49 ` Po Lu
2021-10-10 12:48 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-10 14:19 ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-10 16:49 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-10 19:25 ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-11 7:44 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 21:15 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 5:29 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 5:48 ` Po Lu
2021-10-12 17:14 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 17:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 20:53 ` dick
2021-10-13 2:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 11:56 ` dick
2021-10-13 13:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 4:47 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 0:02 ` Po Lu
2021-10-27 14:36 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-27 18:04 ` dick
2021-10-27 18:27 ` tomas
2021-10-27 18:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-27 18:55 ` Karl Fogel
2021-10-27 19:15 ` dick
2021-10-12 7:14 ` tomas
2021-10-12 8:04 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 22:43 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 3:42 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 5:20 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 12:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 12:49 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:37 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 23:42 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:38 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-14 22:22 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-14 22:26 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-15 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15 9:54 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-12 22:43 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 5:36 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 22:40 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-10 23:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-11 7:34 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 9:10 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 10:46 ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 10:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 21:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 7:17 ` tomas
2021-10-14 12:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-15 22:47 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-11 21:10 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-22 16:23 ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 16:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 16:45 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 19:59 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 21:09 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-22 21:58 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 22:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 22:48 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 23:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-23 23:27 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:47 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-23 2:00 ` Po Lu
2021-10-25 2:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:00 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 16:55 ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 20:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-25 2:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25 7:22 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 7:45 ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-25 7:51 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 8:23 ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-30 6:51 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-01 11:48 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-01 17:47 ` Tim Cross
2021-11-03 3:18 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-03 20:06 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05 5:55 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05 6:25 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05 9:56 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25 5:46 ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:35 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 10:15 ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-06 20:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 2:52 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 3:37 ` dick
2021-10-12 3:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 22:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 4:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12 5:55 ` Po Lu
2021-10-12 7:22 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 10:21 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 12:14 ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:51 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 13:08 ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12 22:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 0:00 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 0:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13 0:31 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 17:15 ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-13 17:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13 20:00 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 21:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 23:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14 6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 6:58 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 6:52 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 11:08 ` dick
2021-10-14 13:34 ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-10-14 8:20 ` João Távora
2021-10-15 22:51 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-16 19:02 ` João Távora
2021-10-17 23:49 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-17 23:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-20 22:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18 0:32 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-18 1:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 2:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 12:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 13:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 7:01 ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 8:43 ` [OT] Elisp as a general purpose programming language (was: Elisp LSP Server) Joost Kremers
2021-10-14 10:37 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-10-14 7:03 ` Elisp LSP Server Po Lu
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