From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2021 21:44:39 +0200 Message-ID: <83y266ibq0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <875ytag0hb.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgqmd5np.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <83wnlqk3rn.fsf@gnu.org> <72dd5c2a-42c7-b12e-05ed-e93adbd89727@gmail.com> <83ilxajyhw.fsf@gnu.org> <83fssejxf8.fsf@gnu.org> <835ytajsv2.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37610"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 02 20:46:08 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mhzjT-0009cS-Fp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2021 20:46:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37502 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mhzjR-0002Qt-Om for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2021 15:46:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60034) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mhzi9-0001Gh-5k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Nov 2021 15:44:45 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53028) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mhzi8-00072o-P9; Tue, 02 Nov 2021 15:44:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=AvauGMsuej+CBYYhN6fO8DQOZbao/mNmhPnwYE6SZK0=; b=kIHaDw5UlgNv HTiT/yrw9VM08l/qnoEPU3aMxDMxqWPHpjq47n4AgxBFGcuhW4feUB+uhig8GxfXx45cy6Dc4ytv/ Tpw+OfjqjmJO7w4C3+eCZUfLUOuGzJJT/ce9xlCf/tJ259CxNSYL+eff+GF8ixIN4BUidYIZeylgc P0FigAeQU2jNGnmmZCJwnrqhExslG0mju2ssmYC0Bp+ef4mJheOoakAXLAnE0mfDh5tJsFG4qwfj6 XizhN2r9RNiN09c6Kl9hg4ZP5zZRa0FfMrEEmFCPZUrojLv/jFBN69xjRrRhdezCKoccpkx78UB9w r+dwLAxKKkROTf8kBgrVEw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2951 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mhzi7-0006JQ-LH; Tue, 02 Nov 2021 15:44:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 2 Nov 2021 12:26:29 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:278525 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 12:26:29 -0700 > Cc: cpitclaudel@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > You cannot see those characters on a screenshot, for the same reason > > you cannot see any whitespace characters on a screenshot: they are > > only discernible when you move cursor through them. Which is why I > > asked how are you looking for them. If you are looking for them in a > > screenshot, you will never see them. > > Now I see what you mean. Yes, they are clearly "visible" when you move > the cursor through them, in the sense that the cursor will jump. Not only will it jump, it will display as a thin 1-pixel shape when point is at the position of these control characters. Just move it slowly so as not to miss that. > (Does this not happen in other text editors?) It should, because almost all (if not all) editors provide "logical" (as opposed to "visual") cursor motion as the default. The paper mentions (and dismisses) that. > Could we add some additional visual indication or warning for such > characters, in the light of this discussion? That was why I wrote bidi-find-overridden-directionality several years ago. My opinion about this should be clear to you from that fact alone. That function has zero uses. What does this tell you about the _real_ importance of this kind of problems in people's eyes, even those very people who argued back then we _must_ have a feature like that?