Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> +  An alternative to using non-@acronym{ASCII} characters directly is
> +to use one of the character escape syntaxes described in
> +@pxref{General Escape Syntax,,, elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference
> +Manual}, as they allow all Unicode codepoints to be specified using
> +only @acronym{ASCII} characters.

IMO, if we think this alternative needs to be described in the Emacs
manual, we should describe it, not cross-link to the ELisp manual.
References to ELisp are only justified when they refer to Lisp code or
details of some functions or variables, not to user commands.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 18:56:35 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:

    >> +  An alternative to using non-@acronym{ASCII} characters directly is
    >> +to use one of the character escape syntaxes described in
    >> +@pxref{General Escape Syntax,,, elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference
    >> +Manual}, as they allow all Unicode codepoints to be specified using
    >> +only @acronym{ASCII} characters.

    Eli> IMO, if we think this alternative needs to be described in the Emacs
    Eli> manual, we should describe it, not cross-link to the ELisp manual.
    Eli> References to ELisp are only justified when they refer to Lisp code or
    Eli> details of some functions or variables, not to user commands.

Hmm, so move or copy "General Escape Syntax" under
(emacs)International somewhere, and refer to it from the "You can
insert non-ASCII characters or search for them" section of that node
(since thatʼs where we talk about C-x 8)?

Robert
-- 

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 18:17:05 +0200
> 
> >>>>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 18:56:35 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:
> 
>     Eli> IMO, if we think this alternative needs to be described in the Emacs
>     Eli> manual, we should describe it, not cross-link to the ELisp manual.
>     Eli> References to ELisp are only justified when they refer to Lisp code or
>     Eli> details of some functions or variables, not to user commands.
> 
> Hmm, so move or copy "General Escape Syntax" under
> (emacs)International somewhere, and refer to it from the "You can
> insert non-ASCII characters or search for them" section of that node
> (since thatʼs where we talk about C-x 8)?

Yes, something like that.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 20:42:39 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:
    >> Hmm, so move or copy "General Escape Syntax" under
    >> (emacs)International somewhere, and refer to it from the "You can
    >> insert non-ASCII characters or search for them" section of that node
    >> (since thatʼs where we talk about C-x 8)?

    Eli> Yes, something like that.

Hereʼs a rough attempt:

diff --git c/doc/emacs/custom.texi i/doc/emacs/custom.texi
index 2bc1d3820d..817501b3f8 100644
--- c/doc/emacs/custom.texi
+++ i/doc/emacs/custom.texi
@@ -2794,9 +2794,8 @@ Init Non-ASCII
 
   An alternative to using non-@acronym{ASCII} characters directly is
 to use one of the character escape syntaxes described in
-@pxref{General Escape Syntax,,, elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference
-Manual}, as they allow all Unicode codepoints to be specified using
-only @acronym{ASCII} characters.
+@xref{Character Escape Syntax}, as they allow all Unicode codepoints
+to be specified using only @acronym{ASCII} characters.
 
   To bind non-@acronym{ASCII} keys, you must use a vector (@pxref{Init
 Rebinding}).  The string syntax cannot be used, since the
diff --git c/doc/emacs/mule.texi i/doc/emacs/mule.texi
index f87c1252d3..c202c21aa4 100644
--- c/doc/emacs/mule.texi
+++ i/doc/emacs/mule.texi
@@ -56,7 +56,9 @@ International
 your keyboard can produce non-@acronym{ASCII} characters, you can select an
 appropriate keyboard coding system (@pxref{Terminal Coding}), and Emacs
 will accept those characters.  Latin-1 characters can also be input by
-using the @kbd{C-x 8} prefix, see @ref{Unibyte Mode}.
+using the @kbd{C-x 8} prefix, see @ref{Unibyte Mode}.  It is also
+possible to write non-@acronym{ASCII} characters using various
+pure-@acronym{ASCII} escape syntaxes, see @ref{Character Escape Syntax}.
 
 With the X Window System, your locale should be set to an appropriate
 value to make sure Emacs interprets keyboard input correctly; see
@@ -67,6 +69,7 @@ International
 
 @menu
 * International Chars::     Basic concepts of multibyte characters.
+* Character Escape Syntax:: Alternative ways to write characters
 * Language Environments::   Setting things up for the language you use.
 * Input Methods::           Entering text characters not on your keyboard.
 * Select Input Method::     Specifying your choice of input methods.
@@ -240,6 +243,63 @@ International Chars
   decomposition: (101 770) ('e' '^')
 @end smallexample
 
+@c This is (almost) verbatim from "General Escape Syntax" in the Emacs
+@c Lisp Reference Manual, please keep in sync.
+@node Character Escape Syntax
+@section Character Escape Syntax
+
+  Input methods provide ways to enter non-@acronym{ASCII} characters,
+but sometimes it is more convenient to use an @acronym{ASCII}-only
+representation, e.g. when there are several similar characters that
+are hard to visually distinguish.  Emacs provides several types of
+escape syntax that you can use to write such characters
+
+@enumerate
+@item
+@cindex @samp{\} in character constant
+@cindex backslash in character constants
+@cindex unicode character escape
+You can specify characters by their Unicode names, if any.
+@code{?\N@{@var{NAME}@}} represents the Unicode character named
+@var{NAME}.  Thus, @samp{?\N@{LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE@}} is
+equivalent to @code{?à} and denotes the Unicode character U+00E0.  To
+simplify entering multi-line strings, you can replace spaces in the
+names by non-empty sequences of whitespace (e.g., newlines).
+
+@item
+You can specify characters by their Unicode values.
+@code{?\N@{U+@var{X}@}} represents a character with Unicode code point
+@var{X}, where @var{X} is a hexadecimal number.  Also,
+@code{?\u@var{xxxx}} and @code{?\U@var{xxxxxxxx}} represent code
+points @var{xxxx} and @var{xxxxxxxx}, respectively, where each @var{x}
+is a single hexadecimal digit.  For example, @code{?\N@{U+E0@}},
+@code{?\u00e0} and @code{?\U000000E0} are all equivalent to @code{?à}
+and to @samp{?\N@{LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE@}}.  The Unicode
+Standard defines code points only up to @samp{U+@var{10ffff}}, so if
+you specify a code point higher than that, Emacs signals an error.
+
+@item
+You can specify characters by their hexadecimal character
+codes.  A hexadecimal escape sequence consists of a backslash,
+@samp{x}, and the hexadecimal character code.  Thus, @samp{?\x41} is
+the character @kbd{A}, @samp{?\x1} is the character @kbd{C-a}, and
+@code{?\xe0} is the character @kbd{à} (@kbd{a} with grave accent).
+You can use any number of hex digits, so you can represent any
+character code in this way.
+
+@item
+@cindex octal character code
+You can specify characters by their character code in
+octal.  An octal escape sequence consists of a backslash followed by
+up to three octal digits; thus, @samp{?\101} for the character
+@kbd{A}, @samp{?\001} for the character @kbd{C-a}, and @code{?\002}
+for the character @kbd{C-b}.  Only characters up to octal code 777 can
+be specified this way.
+
+@end enumerate
+
+  These escape sequences may also be used in strings.
+
 @node Language Environments
 @section Language Environments
 @cindex language environments
diff --git c/doc/lispref/objects.texi i/doc/lispref/objects.texi
index a715b45a6c..35f413c5a5 100644
--- c/doc/lispref/objects.texi
+++ i/doc/lispref/objects.texi
@@ -440,6 +440,8 @@ Basic Char Syntax
 you should write an extra space after the character constant to
 separate it from the following text.)
 
+@c This is reproduced in "Character Escape Syntax" in the Emacs
+@c manual, please keep in sync.
 @node General Escape Syntax
 @subsubsection General Escape Syntax
 

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 17:05:44 +0200
> 
> >>>>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 20:42:39 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:
>     >> Hmm, so move or copy "General Escape Syntax" under
>     >> (emacs)International somewhere, and refer to it from the "You can
>     >> insert non-ASCII characters or search for them" section of that node
>     >> (since thatʼs where we talk about C-x 8)?
> 
>     Eli> Yes, something like that.
> 
> Hereʼs a rough attempt:

Thanks.  One minor nit:

> +representation, e.g. when there are several similar characters that
                   ^^^^^
Either "e.g.," (with a comma) or "e.g.@:".  Otherwise TeX will
typeset this as an end of a sentence.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:18:41 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 17:05:44 +0200
> > 
> > >>>>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 20:42:39 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:
> >     >> Hmm, so move or copy "General Escape Syntax" under
> >     >> (emacs)International somewhere, and refer to it from the "You can
> >     >> insert non-ASCII characters or search for them" section of that node
> >     >> (since thatʼs where we talk about C-x 8)?
> > 
> >     Eli> Yes, something like that.
> > 
> > Hereʼs a rough attempt:
> 
> Thanks.  One minor nit:

Btw, to avoid having 2 copies of the same text, we could remove it
from the ELisp reference and replace it with a cross-reference to the
user manual.  That direction of a link is okay for user-level stuff.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:58:05 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:

    >> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 18:18:41 +0300
    >> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
    >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
    >> 
    >> > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>
    >> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
    >> > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 17:05:44 +0200
    >> > 
    >> > >>>>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 20:42:39 +0300, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said:
    >> >     >> Hmm, so move or copy "General Escape Syntax" under
    >> >     >> (emacs)International somewhere, and refer to it from the "You can
    >> >     >> insert non-ASCII characters or search for them" section of that node
    >> >     >> (since thatʼs where we talk about C-x 8)?
    >> > 
    >> >     Eli> Yes, something like that.
    >> > 
    >> > Hereʼs a rough attempt:
    >> 
    >> Thanks.  One minor nit:

    Eli> Btw, to avoid having 2 copies of the same text, we could remove it
    Eli> from the ELisp reference and replace it with a cross-reference to the
    Eli> user manual.  That direction of a link is okay for user-level stuff.

Yes, that sounds like a good idea (but for tomorrow)

Robert
-- 

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

We try to avoid the Latin abbreviations (such as "e.g.") that used to
be customary in erudite writing.  Many readers don't know them.
It is better to say "such as" instead.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 15:42:19 -0400
> 
> We try to avoid the Latin abbreviations (such as "e.g.") that used to
> be customary in erudite writing.  Many readers don't know them.
> It is better to say "such as" instead.

We use "such as" and "like" and "for example" and others, but we also
use "e.g.".  I find nothing wrong with that; technical literature out
there is full of those, and people who use and develop software should
be familiar with this abbreviation.  (And if they aren't, there's
always Wikipedia, and our Glossary also explains it.)  That is part of
everyone's education, if you will.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to give in to such "winds of change".  Where
it feels natural to say "e.g.", we will not avoid saying that just
because someone might need to go look it up.  Of course, we shouldn't
use it too much: for example, using more than one in places too close
to one another should be definitely avoided.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Po Lu]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> We use "such as" and "like" and "for example" and others, but we also
> use "e.g.".  I find nothing wrong with that; technical literature out
> there is full of those, and people who use and develop software should
> be familiar with this abbreviation.  (And if they aren't, there's
> always Wikipedia, and our Glossary also explains it.)  That is part of
> everyone's education, if you will.
>
> I'm sorry, but I refuse to give in to such "winds of change".  Where
> it feels natural to say "e.g.", we will not avoid saying that just
> because someone might need to go look it up.  Of course, we shouldn't
> use it too much: for example, using more than one in places too close
> to one another should be definitely avoided.

FWIW, even living in a country where the average level of proficiency in
English is very low, I find that most people are able to understand
abbreviations such as "i.e." and "e.g."; they are taught in the
education system and are in fact used quite often on the internet.

So I don't see why using any of those abbreviations (which may as well
be called colloquialisms) would be a problem.

RE: [External] : Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Drew Adams]

> > From: Richard Stallman 
> > We try to avoid the Latin abbreviations (such as "e.g.") that used to
> > be customary in erudite writing.  Many readers don't know them.
> > It is better to say "such as" instead.
> 
> We use "such as" and "like" and "for example" and others, but we also
> use "e.g.".  I find nothing wrong with that; technical literature out
> there is full of those, and people who use and develop software should
> be familiar with this abbreviation.  (And if they aren't, there's
> always Wikipedia, and our Glossary also explains it.)  That is part of
> everyone's education, if you will.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I refuse to give in to such "winds of change".  Where
> it feels natural to say "e.g.", we will not avoid saying that just
> because someone might need to go look it up.  Of course, we shouldn't
> use it too much: for example, using more than one in places too close
> to one another should be definitely avoided.

FWIW, I agree with Eli here (and Po Lu).

Pretty much everyone who understands most of the
common words used in our doc understands "e.g."
(and "etc."). That's not a reason to overuse such
abbreviations.  It's a reason not to overly avoid
their use.
___

It's more important to be sure to use "such as"
and "like" correctly than it is to avoid "e.g.".

Unfortunately, readers won't necessarily get the
difference.  "such as X" includes X.  "like X"
doesn't necessarily include X - and X need not
even be an includable value - it could be a
pattern/exemplar that describes possible values.
___

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who
confuse "i.e.", thinking it means the same as
"e.g.".  I, for one, avoid using "i.e.", in favor
of "that is".

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > FWIW, even living in a country where the average level of proficiency in
  > English is very low, I find that most people are able to understand
  > abbreviations such as "i.e." and "e.g."; they are taught in the
  > education system and are in fact used quite often on the internet.

I suspect it varies from country to country.

I would not know where to find the reports I got that people had
trouble understanding these Latin abbreviations, since it was years
ago, but I did get them.  People who don't recognize "e.g." will
certainly recognize "for example", so there's no harm in choosing the
latter.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > We use "such as" and "like" and "for example" and others, but we also
  > use "e.g.".

I didn't ask people to go through all the existing
documentation and eliminate the Latin abbreviations.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 16:06:47 -0400
> 
>   > We use "such as" and "like" and "for example" and others, but we also
>   > use "e.g.".
> 
> I didn't ask people to go through all the existing
> documentation and eliminate the Latin abbreviations.

Alas, there are people among us who'd be driven to do precisely that,
having read what you wrote.

Re: RE: [External] : emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 5:22 AM
> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> To: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>, "rms@gnu.org" <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: "rpluim@gmail.com" <rpluim@gmail.com>, "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> Subject: RE: [External] : Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode
>
> > > From: Richard Stallman
> > > We try to avoid the Latin abbreviations (such as "e.g.") that used to
> > > be customary in erudite writing.  Many readers don't know them.
> > > It is better to say "such as" instead.

There is nothing erudite about e.g.

Besides the fact that there is nothing wrong about formal text and standardisation
in style.  Knowing about them and what they mean is even more relevant today.

Having advocated for good writing, I see nothing discrepant regarding its use.

> > We use "such as" and "like" and "for example" and others, but we also
> > use "e.g.".  I find nothing wrong with that; technical literature out
> > there is full of those, and people who use and develop software should
> > be familiar with this abbreviation.  (And if they aren't, there's
> > always Wikipedia, and our Glossary also explains it.)  That is part of
> > everyone's education, if you will.
> >
> > I'm sorry, but I refuse to give in to such "winds of change".  Where
> > it feels natural to say "e.g.", we will not avoid saying that just
> > because someone might need to go look it up.  Of course, we shouldn't
> > use it too much: for example, using more than one in places too close
> > to one another should be definitely avoided.
>
> FWIW, I agree with Eli here (and Po Lu).
>
> Pretty much everyone who understands most of the
> common words used in our doc understands "e.g."
> (and "etc."). That's not a reason to overuse such
> abbreviations.  It's a reason not to overly avoid
> their use.
> ___
>
> It's more important to be sure to use "such as"
> and "like" correctly than it is to avoid "e.g.".
>
> Unfortunately, readers won't necessarily get the
> difference.  "such as X" includes X.  "like X"
> doesn't necessarily include X - and X need not
> even be an includable value - it could be a
> pattern/exemplar that describes possible values.
> ___
>
> On the other hand, there are plenty of people who
> confuse "i.e.", thinking it means the same as
> "e.g.".  I, for one, avoid using "i.e.", in favor
> of "that is".
>
>

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 8:05 AM
> From: "Richard Stallman" <rms@gnu.org>
> To: "Po Lu" <luangruo@yahoo.com>
> Cc: eliz@gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode
>
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > FWIW, even living in a country where the average level of proficiency in
>   > English is very low, I find that most people are able to understand
>   > abbreviations such as "i.e." and "e.g."; they are taught in the
>   > education system and are in fact used quite often on the internet.
>
> I suspect it varies from country to country.
>
> I would not know where to find the reports I got that people had
> trouble understanding these Latin abbreviations, since it was years
> ago, but I did get them.  People who don't recognize "e.g." will
> certainly recognize "for example", so there's no harm in choosing the
> latter.

We could provide a list of abbreviations.  Although I am not against the
use of "for example".  An alternative to "for example" which is short would
be "as in".

The New York Times also uses e.g. and i.e.  Although the Oxford Style Manual
has dropped the use a comma after e.g. and i.e. to avoid double punctuation.
The Guardian, The Economist and The Times of London use eg. and ie.  Thusly,
their use is very common actually.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>, eliz@gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com,
>  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 06:40:35 +0200
> Sensitivity: Normal
> 
> We could provide a list of abbreviations.

We already do, see Glossary.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > I didn't ask people to go through all the existing
  > > documentation and eliminate the Latin abbreviations.

  > Alas, there are people among us who'd be driven to do precisely that,
  > having read what you wrote.

Replacing a Latin abbreviation is an improvement, but not an urgent or
major improvement.  If someone feels like replacing some from time to
time, in master, I see no reason not to.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 15:31:22 -0400
> 
> Replacing a Latin abbreviation is an improvement, but not an urgent or
> major improvement.  If someone feels like replacing some from time to
> time, in master, I see no reason not to.

I do: it's a bad use of our scarce resources.  We have much more
important fish to fry.

Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2022 at 7:31 AM
> From: "Richard Stallman" <rms@gnu.org>
> To: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: emacs-28 b7d7c2d9e9: Add cross-reference to alternative syntaxes for Unicode
>
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > > I didn't ask people to go through all the existing
>   > > documentation and eliminate the Latin abbreviations.
>
>   > Alas, there are people among us who'd be driven to do precisely that,
>   > having read what you wrote.
>
> Replacing a Latin abbreviation is an improvement, but not an urgent or
> major improvement.  If someone feels like replacing some from time to
> time, in master, I see no reason not to.

There could be a rule, abbreviated-format and long-format.  And then it would
not matter what one uses.  Solves problem with everybody.