From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Forcing emacs to not use 256 colors Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 11:07:01 +0300 Message-ID: <83y1k0qcm2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20230628115134.6f5874ca@fecfc4134a3d> <0100018902b4043c-e3851df4-1be4-4dbb-b58b-22fcd8412452-000000@email.amazonses.com> <83o7kxrwhe.fsf@gnu.org> <83leg0sroz.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3482"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 01 10:07:02 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qFVdG-0000c1-DV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 10:07:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFVcm-0005Yf-35; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 04:06:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFVck-0005YU-US for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 04:06:31 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFVck-0006b7-Lm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 04:06:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Wv7DRZs0DMxRXtFU4iLVgrNuv1MZllmYinZexhTkYxM=; b=CBk1BKf3Svka NJAnhgX/f1CrXs9b+USlp2k1meGV+PEJxJwBgcoIVdfk+Bau+3NfmaQ3fxOY9+sIxWVQxAREL0VFw xhbFmICSl4hfvERR7XdBECcSHKE9OsvIJ1l4kPfqtwVilIapNGj7u2UKUfYI07dvOYA7537OzHvIE weWj2Ehn/KmHMglxwTncJ+lOwawmWIWp7DpY5JwDRphc/0IirlBOAWbsSr4cz8/dWE+CMUQv7Z5vz SuSNd4rJgzJuzqRm0JR0Xt7zVMKXqzNXU74Vk0hRUY0fFM2GdKqACF3pjRLgV2+PofGiO3MzEJnNt Woub8FN6aeRvhJ7vAQy5cA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qFVck-000843-5u for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 04:06:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: (tomas@tuxteam.de) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144072 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 08:50:54 +0200 > From: > > > > > If you don't like the default colors themselves, isn't it better to > > > > customize the faces to use the colors you like? > > > > > > Properly done, that is an enormous undertaking. > > > > Not if you only ever customize the faces you care about. Let's not > > gratuitously exaggerate the problem, okay? > > I think you're being a bit unfair here: the original problem > description is perfectly valid and John's observation seems > quite adequate. I didn't say the problem is invalid. I just said that assuming the user needs to customize _all_ of the faces is an exaggeration of the problem facing the user. I don't think I deserve this kind of cold shower just because I have a different perspective on this. I do my share of face customizations, so I know something about what's involved. And I only wrote that as an aside, after trying to answer the specific question the user asked. Again, it's okay to disagree, but please do so in a way that respects differing opinions, which means, among the rest, not to hint they are invalid, "unfair", or any other such derogation. > For someone who has been happy with a set of defaults up to > now (for whatever set of reasons: habituation may be in there), > it can be jarring if those defaults change. That user perhaps > doesn't know how Emacs manages faces. Finding their way to > "customize the faces they care about" is the first challenge. > Finding the set of those may develop to a happy game of whack- > a-mole. If the OP doesn't know how to customize faces, or how to find which face is used at a given location, they can always ask; this is what this list is for. Lecturing users about things they already know is also sometimes taken as a patronizing offense, so I prefer to wait for specific questions. I don't see why this approach should be a problem, but if you or someone else prefers to post the detailed information without waiting for questions, please do. > > > Just take a look at the work Protesilaos has put into creating > > > themes covering large numbers of emacs packages. > > > > Themes customize most if not all faces, something individual users > > will never need to do. > > > > Of course, the best is to just use the defaults: they are, after all, > > well thought-out... > > I seriously hope this is tongue-in-cheek. It wasn't; it was a good-faith suggestion to consider whether the defaults are really disliked or merely unusual (in which case maybe they just take some getting used to). And I wonder why you saw it appropriate to express that "hope" in a public post in the first place. This is supposed to be a forum where each one tries to help those who asks questions as best as they can, and I don't think my attempts to do so in this case were not useful, let alone intentionally so, to deserve such rebuttals.