From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13133: 24.2.90; scroll-conservatively is too coarse a setting Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:08:23 +0200 Message-ID: <83wqwqbd08.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87wqwqwpnf.fsf@vbx.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <83zk1mbert.fsf@gnu.org> <50C5855B.10703@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1355123380 16445 80.91.229.3 (10 Dec 2012 07:09:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:09:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13133@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 10 08:09:53 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxUo-0003pR-RE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 08:09:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33789 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxUc-0004Le-4P for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:09:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46475) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxUY-0004LY-Et for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:09:32 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxUW-0007jg-OB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:09:30 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:52761) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxUW-0007ja-Ka for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:09:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxV4-00020i-1k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:10:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13133 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13133-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13133.13551233547664 (code B ref 13133); Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:10:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13133) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Dec 2012 07:09:14 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxUI-0001zZ-14 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:09:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:51878) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ThxUF-0001zP-EQ for 13133@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:09:12 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MES00100ZSZAG00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 13133@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:08:33 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MES000XAZU8UQ80@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:08:32 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <50C5855B.10703@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:68262 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:46:51 +0400 > From: Dmitry Gutov > CC: 13133@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> Examples: > >> 1) I want help-button-action to bring me to the function's definition, > >> and I generally want in the middle of the screen. Same for imenu, etc. > >> 2) I really don't want to see empty space after the contents in the > >> compilation window. But as much as half of the window may be empty right > >> after compilation because of the point recentering. > >> 3) Ideally, if I move around with next/previous-line, I don't want > >> sudden jumps and recenterings. Same thing with beginning/end-of-defun > >> (so setting scroll-conservatively to a value larger than 0 is not a real > >> solution). > > > > I'm sorry, but the problem you describing is entirely unclear to me. > > You didn't say what value, if any, did you set scroll-conservatively > > to, nor if you have any other scroll-* variables customized to > > non-default values. If you don't customize anything, Emacs always > > re-centers when point goes out of sight. When point is re-centered, I > > don't think you can ever have half-window of empty space, because of > > the way re-centering works. > > > > Given this lack of information, I don't understand how you get the > > adverse effects in your 3 examples. Please elaborate, perhaps > > separately about each of the examples. > > The problem is getting all 3 to work at the same time. > > For 1, scroll-conservatively needs to be < 100, something like 0-10, so > that recentering usually happens. > For 2, I have to set scroll-conservatively to 101. Some lower values may > also help, but there's no guarantee, as I understand it: the contents of > the compilation buffer are getting added in large chunks. > For 3, again, I have to set scroll-conservatively to a large value. For > C-n/C-p, the value of 5 is usually enough, for for C-M-e/C-M-a, it often > has to be larger than that. Why can't you use a value of scroll-conservatively around 10, then? The way I see it, the only problem might be with 2, and even there I'm not sure you will see it frequently, or ever. For 3, C-M-e/C-M-a will DTRT and show point in the middle of the window, unless the function is very short, in which case point will be near the beginning or end of the window; again, TRT. > Half-window happens because when the compilation buffer is filled, the > point is at the end of it (when compilation-scroll-output is t, at least). Does this happen with or without setting scroll-conservatively to a value larger than 100? Just for the record: when I asked whether people who like Emacs to _never_ recenter would mind having that behavior in contexts that have nothing to do with scrolling, the response was a huge YES. So the current behavior seems to be "by popular demand". Another possibility would be to add more customization values to compilation-scroll-output, implementing the behavior of your compile-scroll-eob. I won't argue what the default behavior should be, because it tends to become bike-shedding very fast. FWIW, I use the default behavior, without customizing any scroll-related variables, and like that behavior, including in compilation buffers.