From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Contributing LLVM.org patches to gud.el Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:18:45 +0200 Message-ID: <83wq3p7ki2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87mw4rxkzv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87y4oavxcy.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d25juy8m.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83iofa8lu2.fsf@gnu.org> <87twytg0m8.fsf@engster.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1423588758 11930 80.91.229.3 (10 Feb 2015 17:19:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 17:19:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org To: David Engster Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 10 18:19:07 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YLESn-0008Bk-St for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:19:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40965 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLESn-0007YK-6a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:19:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51669) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLESi-0007VL-Ht for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:19:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLESf-0006QB-CZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:19:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout28.012.net.il ([80.179.55.184]:36521) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLESf-0006Q5-5G; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:18:57 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout28.012.net.il by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NJK00J00FRZS200@mtaout28.012.net.il>; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:17:13 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NJK00EVEG0OZ240@mtaout28.012.net.il>; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:17:13 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87twytg0m8.fsf@engster.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.184 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:182824 Archived-At: > From: David Engster > Cc: Stefan Monnier , eller.helmut@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:03:27 +0100 > > >I faced a similar disheartening intention (for quite different, but > >still political) reasons when I worked on bidi support. I decided to > >disregard and proceed, and the result is before your eyes. > > The crucial difference is that I could not have done this on my own, but > that I would have needed lots of help from the GCC project, most > importantly the willingness to actively support tooling based on GCC, > which in the end means opening up the compiler further. I think you greatly exaggerate your need for outside help and/or the obstacles you'd need to face when you would have asked for such help. Quite a few of GCC developers use Emacs, so finding individuals motivated to help with this project should not be too hard. > I'm pretty sure that eventually I would have needed changes > upstream, either to make my life easier, or to retrieve information > that isn't available in the AST. Even if RMS finally decides to > tolerate an AST export, it is clear that he won't approve of the > general direction that is needed to make GCC a contender in the > tooling area. I suggest that you take a look at libcc1.so in GCC 5 and its use by GDB for injecting code into the debuggee. It might change your perspective and your evaluation of the state of affairs, now and in the future.