From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:53:37 +0200 Message-ID: <83wppetejy.fsf@gnu.org> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <83bn6quugw.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457369642 12501 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 16:54:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:54:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "John Wiegley" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 17:53:55 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1acyPr-0004m5-4Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:53:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56989 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acyPq-0000TS-HT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:53:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acyPa-0000T5-Ml for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:53:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acyPZ-00005D-OG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:53:38 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47551) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acyPV-0008Vw-32; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:53:33 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1324 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1acyPT-0004T3-Lf; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:53:32 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from John Wiegley on Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:29:44 -0800) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201057 Archived-At: > From: John Wiegley > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:29:44 -0800 > > >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > More generally, there's no way Git could replace ChangeLog style entries, > > because they frequently include information that is not in the diffs. To say > > nothing of the fact that understanding the change from reading Diff hunks is > > much harder, and therefore much less efficient, than from reading a log > > entry which describes the change in plain English. > > I'm not saying that commit log entries are not necessary. Having a richly > verbose description of a change is always good. I'm just saying that enforcing > ChangeLog structure is orthogonal. So you are saying we should come up with a completely new structure? And you are sure we will do it correctly the first time? I doubt that. ChangeLog structure is a well-known one, it has good support in Emacs itself, including some quite exotic features (like invoking "C-x 4 a" from diffs). Developers that come from other GNU projects are familiar with this format, and will have no difficulties to fit in. None of this will be true for any new format we invent. Sounds like waste of energy to me. > I do deep forensics in other projects all the time. I've never noticed having > or not having a ChangeLog as bearing much on the ease of doing so. What > matters more is how well documented a commit is, and how well each commit > sticks to doing just one thing. What can I say? we have very different experiences.