From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13841: 24.3.50; Regression - unreadable `C-h k' help Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 18:52:50 +0300 Message-ID: <83wpnfnlf1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <98E304F5436E487A91B33E89A04A5851@us.oracle.com> <87sirr1l0d.fsf@building.gnus.org> <87h9el2wcj.fsf@gnus.org> <87inyze2tq.fsf@web.de> <4e02c2a0-6e68-4091-a64d-131bcfc2fc49@default> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462031683 6095 80.91.229.3 (30 Apr 2016 15:54:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:54:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, larsi@gnus.org, 13841@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 30 17:54:32 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1awXDy-0003O0-Hj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 17:54:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58862 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awXDu-000191-RO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:54:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35553) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awXDl-0000vU-82 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:54:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awXDZ-0005C9-Cl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:45679) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awXDZ-0005B0-8z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:54:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awXDV-0007id-TR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:54:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13841 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13841-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13841.146203160329626 (code B ref 13841); Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:54:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13841) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2016 15:53:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58016 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awXCq-0007hi-0w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:53:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awXCl-0007hP-3t for 13841@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:53:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awXCW-0004qU-9m for 13841@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:53:06 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:59711) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awXCW-0004pP-4l; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:53:00 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1841 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1awXCO-0000p5-R4; Sat, 30 Apr 2016 11:52:53 -0400 In-reply-to: <4e02c2a0-6e68-4091-a64d-131bcfc2fc49@default> (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:37:50 -0800 (GMT-08:00)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117360 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 07:37:50 -0800 (GMT-08:00) > From: Drew Adams > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 13841@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > This is a REGRESSION. With Emacs 23.4, emacs -Q C-h k, same > > > recipe, you see this: > > > > The difference to newer Emacsen is that this menu command had been a > > quoted lambda in Emacs 23 (that didn't get compiled), and has been > > unquoted since then (good!). So I guess it's not a regression since > > 23.4. > > Not sure what you're saying about when or whether a regression > was introduced. > > In fact, this is a regression that was introduced in Emacs 24.3 > (probably you meant that, not 23.4). In 24.2 and prior there > was no such problem. Of course, there was a problem! Showing users a bunch of convoluted Lisp when they ask what a key does is plain usability bug! It doesn't matter whether that Lisp is compiled or not, it's no way of _helping_ the user understand what the function does. If you don't mind the Lisp form, you shouldn't mind the byte-compiled form, either. And if you cannot read bytecode, you can disassemble it, then it should be as crystal-clear to you as the Emacs 23 vintage result. > And in this particular case, at least, a simple fix should > be to use a named function and not an anonymous one (in > `menu-bar-line-wrapping-menu'). Indeed. And in any other case like this. So let's stop talking about "regressions", and start talking about the real problem here. Which also suggests an easy solution. > But a more general solution should be sought to the various > problems introduced by the aggressive/eager byte-compiling > that is the underlying cause of this regression. A more general solution is not to have lambda functions hang on keys and mouse clicks.