From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35383: 27.0.50; Complete process of decoding Gnus group names Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 06:55:00 +0300 Message-ID: <83wojcrvu3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <878sw1995f.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87sgu87ayo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87k1fj49o2.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87bm0uhxqy.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87d0l5ihgr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878svtihdw.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <835zqwu8cq.fsf@gnu.org> <87sgu0h92o.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="137461"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: yamaoka@jpl.org, 35383@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eric Abrahamsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 30 05:56:14 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJsK-000ZbG-EQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 05:56:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38691 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJsJ-0000fZ-5U for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:56:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55826) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJsB-0000fS-JH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:56:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJsA-0007Ky-I9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:56:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:55074) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJsA-0007Km-FE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:56:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJsA-0005ZP-A9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:56:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 03:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35383 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 35383-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35383.155659651921330 (code B ref 35383); Tue, 30 Apr 2019 03:56:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35383) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2019 03:55:19 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJrS-0005Xw-Pl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:55:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41315) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJrQ-0005XV-Ek for 35383@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:55:17 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39279) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJrK-0006X7-Ca; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:55:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4954 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1hLJrI-0008EJ-MV; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:55:09 -0400 In-reply-to: <87sgu0h92o.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (message from Eric Abrahamsen on Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:04:31 -0700) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:158474 Archived-At: > From: Eric Abrahamsen > Cc: yamaoka@jpl.org, 35383@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:04:31 -0700 > > >> Actually, maybe that's wrong. We don't care how the files are written, > >> only that, after parsing, the group names are successfully _decoded_ to > >> 'utf-8-emacs. Maybe I'm trying too hard? > > > > When you decode _any_ text by _any_ coding-system, the result is > > _always_ utf-8-emacs, because utf-8-emacs is the internal > > representation of characters and raw bytes in Emacs buffers and > > strings. > > I did know that much! I'm pretty bad at encoding, but not quite that > bad. Sorry, it was not clear to me, since you talked about "decoding to utf-8-emacs", which is a kind of tautology. > So you think Gnus' various *-file-coding-system options should > default to 'utf-8-emacs rather than 'raw-text? Not sure about all of them, I don't think I have a clear idea of what they are used for. The principle is that we use utf-8-emacs for files where Emacs records its internal data, and whose primary role is to allow Emacs to restore its internal data with maximum reliability. One good example of this is auto-save files, where we use utf-8-emacs regardless of the actual encoding of the file whose buffer is auto-saved. If this principle is not enough to make a decision, please point out the specific variables you are unsure about, and I will take a look at their actual usage. > As per your other message, it sounds like active files written as > 'raw-text will probably survive being read as 'utf-8-emacs. And if the > user has previously customized those options to something else, the > change in default value won't matter anyway. That is true, but good defaults do matter to new users and new files. And raw-text is almost never appropriate as the default for human-readable text. > What I meant by "trying too hard" is, maybe it's enough to just change > the defaults, and not add any other error checking and guarantees? What other checks and guarantees did you consider? (Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread, so maybe just point me to the message where you described this.)