From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#64759: Broken faces Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 21:49:49 +0300 Message-ID: <83wmyjj2gi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86fs5h4vo2.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fs5h1z38.fsf@gnu.org> <86bkg53cau.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <86ilad1bhn.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83r0p19q0r.fsf@gnu.org> <86tttxywxu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o7k59kpv.fsf@gnu.org> <86h6pxyubj.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83lef99js7.fsf@gnu.org> <86351d5i22.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83ila9qigb.fsf@gnu.org> <86r0ow53t7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <835y67q42w.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37715"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 64759@debbugs.gnu.org, maurooaranda@gmail.com To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 28 20:52:54 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSa6-0009cw-0a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 20:52:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSXM-0003ei-Pg; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:50:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSXL-0003b3-EB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSXL-0002KX-6G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSXK-0003Z6-IS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:50:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 18:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 64759 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 64759-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B64759.169057014513594 (code B ref 64759); Fri, 28 Jul 2023 18:50:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 64759) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jul 2023 18:49:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46127 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWP-0003XC-5Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:49:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57848) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWN-0003Wd-Sx for 64759@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:49:04 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWH-000282-Pj; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:48:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=uIJUispzmahQwLzCPmQpL/QSedM1NlwjAqcmfu+R2Tc=; b=Svp45G5HbuSt Ueil55vARR734ZGvAZbkugPMV34tQPU8Jhd95+5dSQPH4rNqPA47VyH7vUmtgpvdd2PGASyZ9i1Mp cqTTyC8onjGffXO8zWWVZUY+hOrBv4NnkBmFwFEEA2AAvgCAqii+HirfBCEr5tBlGeg/IxGrnIfsG hUdO/bIHnZXh41tmg69805RC6+Prirxuf4DYspDKRN44wzxUWqYZKQcdt3W/MzlKw1Ari7PD0kpzh CljUwIX+nIYNU7oHqy/qrX7Mp2kLLHp+IsxpVwywBC30FnpTn+DRtxHtKnRDzorOlxl0s64a34G4V ueDRBktcwmDUHoUWQnv8IA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qPSWH-00017a-9M; Fri, 28 Jul 2023 14:48:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <86v8e4lz43.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 28 Jul 2023 20:30:44 +0300) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:266295 Archived-At: > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: maurooaranda@gmail.com, 64759@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2023 20:30:44 +0300 > > >> >> The semantics of nil could be the same as '((t nil)). > >> > > >> > And what is the semantics of '((t nil)) ? What attributes will the > >> > face have when realized? > >> > >> No attributes. This is the standard value used by empty faces. > > > > What does this mean? For example, what would be the foreground color? > > what would be the font? etc. > > No foreground color, and no font. There can be no such face. > > I'm not familiar with "empty face" notion. A face always has > > attributes when it is fully realized, otherwise Emacs will be unable > > to use it. > > "Empty face" is the standard notion. Here's an example how it's used: > > 1. M-x make-empty-face RET foo RET > 2. M-x customize-face RET foo RET > > Then output is: > > Hide Foo face: [sample] > State : NO CUSTOMIZATION DATA; not intended to be customized. > nil > -- Empty face -- We are mis-communicating. My point is that we need to explain in the documentation the effect of such a defface when the face is realized and displayed. Lisp programmers need to understand that to be able to use this correctly and predictably. > > Only if "no better face to inherit from is available" in all of those > > cases. Which I'm not sure is true. If you are sure, please tell why > > the faces I put there are not better ideas. > > Because they will cause the same problem as with display-time-date-and-time, > except that other faces are used less often, so it will take time until users > will notice these problems. display-time-date-and-time is used on the mode line, where the colors are different. The other faces are for buffer text, so the problems with display-time-date-and-time don't necessarily apply.