From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#66750: Unhelpful text in C-h v for variables with a lambda form as value Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2023 18:50:47 +0200 Message-ID: <83wmv06qvs.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83il6k8yyd.fsf@gnu.org> <837cn08o13.fsf@gnu.org> <831qd88dt5.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37113"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, 66750@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 02 17:51:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qyavB-0009PD-01 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 17:51:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qyaum-0007nO-P2; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 12:51:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qyaul-0007nB-RK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 12:51:27 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qyaul-00009u-7Q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 12:51:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qyavK-0000qo-1Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 12:52:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 66750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66750.16989439003237 (code B ref 66750); Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:52:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 66750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2023 16:51:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55898 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qyaux-0000q9-NL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 12:51:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55738) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qyaut-0000pk-7R for 66750@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 12:51:37 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qyauE-0007gu-4b; Thu, 02 Nov 2023 12:50:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=XDFvpPx6A5GPF0NtMgf2v3r6vpwfgU9IeRiQZXcpFMs=; b=nOK0YgrvRVT5 Yru/QlfpXgjtJruEl4MFMO3auV2X3iIdHOqOtFKpCfhokRCqj1lmRCV/ljRYSgryLsEwkkx4+njEB Y64tAksTe4mLo30p/TeSdVTcxfLliiLmSAX5of7MmJztYVPFGwXI/cSBQO7P5XvKIX9hVUZXFLC1C mUfdC19zB5jGnAhLTLcDefhVpfTtVTJqxmhbCnbvAdgAzq2BBDOb1+G+W4lbftBr/Sz5t7sK3pgJG wQxWGvCDg0dP+/64NneEuHNFtjibsDzLPUeiPInWx6un3j+7Gy7MClRpNsaiRAZCzPApImtL8fzhN Yi2pSmJLZ+1Ty0H95HDvLg==; In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 2 Nov 2023 15:55:22 +0000) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:273660 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2023 15:55:22 +0000 > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 66750@debbugs.gnu.org, acorallo@gnu.org, > stefankangas@gmail.com, acm@muc.de > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > How about if you propose a compromise with which you could live? > > That is difficult. Of course, it is. But "digging in" your original position will never allow us to make any progress here, when there are differences of opinion. So please try, however difficult it is. You will need to get creative. > I could see myself replacing the defining symbol with FILE:POSITION > information, but I doubt that would make the two of you happy > enough. Or, maybe put this defining symbol or F:P information into > the doc string somehow (including in the interpreted format) like > Stefan was suggesting recently. My advice is to propose the alternatives which you could accept, and then take it from there. There's no need to try to decide up front whether some compromise will or won't be acceptable by the other side. > > Maybe so, but if your feature doesn't bring us closer to that goal, > > then for me personally it is much less interesting. > > Maybe we could put no-ops into the byte compiled format, where each no-op > had a position argument. But that would make Emacs a bit slower. Or we > could add an extra "debugging" field to the structure which would contain > the position information. As with lots of things, macros would > complicate such a scheme. In the native compiled format, isn't there > already a standard way of writing this info? I don't know, but Andrea probably will.